Bus and 914 engine difference Options

[cal44]

Lads,
Not being fully versed on everything VW, I was curious if the a 2.0 Bus engine and a 2.0 914 engine are the same......Or, will a Bus 2.0 bolt right into a 914. Air cooled of course.

Also 1.7 and 1.8 while you are at it.

Thanks bunch.

Mike

Sarcastic remarks welcome, I like the humor

[SirAndy]

The cases are similar but not exactly the same and the internals are somewhat different.

The bus engine is build to give a lot of low end torque to haul around 5000+ pounds, it won't rev past 4k rpm and makes no power at those rpms.

You can put one of those in a 914 but i'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[tomh]

I test drove one last year with a bus 2.0 and it performed worse than any 1.7 I've ever had.

[r_towle]

The oil dipstick is in a different location
The heads have smaller valves and hydraulic lifters
The crank is the same
Lower compression dished pistons

[mmichalik]

The 914 2.0 also has a windage tray in the oilpan that the bus 2.0 does not. (if memory serves correctly)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though....

[porschetub]

Bus motors work very hard,run hot and are more prone to dropping exhaust valves for that reason,all comments on the performance are correct,the saving in buying these motors is soon used up to get them to work,914 motors are still fairly cheap to buy .
I read somewhere the cases more often need line boring ,haven't seen this myself however.
I have a stock 1.8 bus ROW motor it has the larger valve heads and higher compression pistons, electronic ignition, twin Weber DCNVA's and freeflow exhaust,runs very well and makes pretty good power,the US motors were hampered by decreased valve size,small ports and low compression.
Not saying it can't be done but is it worth it ??

[cal44]

I'm a bit of a numbskull. What I should have written was, as an example, would a 2.0 block from a bus bolt directly in a 914. But, I think youz guys answered the question. Dip stick is in different location?
And I reckon somewhere on the block (using a 2.0 as the example) there is an I.D to indicate its use for a 914.

I remember the GA and three bolts on heads but don't recall the block I.D.
My reason for asking is, there are always folks selling related items on CL, I don't want to make a bonehead mistake.

I'm trying to ease back into 914's (it's been a long time) as I have been away into the early Boss 302's, Tigers and 911's.

[Dave_Darling]

The Bus has a filler and dipstick that go into a funnel bolted onto the front-right corner (914 engine orientation) of the case. The Bus also doesn't have the dipstick tube on the top. On some later Bus cases, the oil filler tower is cast over solid.

Those are the primary difference in the cases, as far as I know. You can block off the hole in the case where the Bus filler and dipstick go, drill a hole and add the top dipstick, and if the tower is cast over you can machine it off and use the 914 filler assembly.

But it's usually a lot easier to use a 914 case. Or one of the VW applications that has the top filler and dipstick--there are some.

The 914 cases have engine numbers that start with W, EA, EB, EC, GA, GB, or GC. The GA/GB/GC (these are the 2.0 engines) numbers would be found in front of the oil filler. The other 914 engine numbers would be found on a boss on top of the case on the right side near the flywheel end.

Note that some of the VW cases have non-GA/GB/GC numbers in front of the oil filler tower.

Also note that W, EA, EB, and EC were also used in some non-914 applications. GA, GB, and GC were only used in 914s.

--DD

[barefoot]

When i got my 76, it had already been few at least one engine rebuild, it was a correct 2.0L GC code block but was equipped with 022-101-372G bus heads with smaller 48cc chambers. Later I acquired a GA code 2.0L motor with the proper 039-101-371A large valve heads but has larger 60cc chambers.
If you want high compression and smaller valve sizes, the bus heads will do that for you

[McMark]

I'm still not sure if you're looking to buy a running motor to install, or a core engine to build something.

If you're looking for a running motor, anything Type4 will work with some modest changes. The bus/411 flywheel is different, the mounts will have to be swapped with 914 components, etc. Do-able, not terribly difficult either.

If you're looking for a core engine for a build project, get a non-bus case. You can convert the dipstick and oil filler, but 1.7 or 1.8 core engines can be found for cheap still and I've found if you can't start your engine build with a 914 2.0 core, then ignore the other engines/cars and find any 914 engine of any size as your starting point.

[flmont]

To completely change the topic (although a little related),..why can a type 1, 2 or 3 VW engine create such strong and reliable HP and TQ numbers when the type 4 supposedly cant ??

[falcor75]

To completely change the topic (although a little related),..why can a type 1, 2 or 3 VW engine create such strong and reliable HP and TQ numbers when the type 4 supposedly cant ??

The type 4 can be built to give any hp number you want. But because there are so few willing to pay the cost you dont see it done by companies because there isnt a huge market for it.

[McMark]

They have a better exhaust port design.

[DM_2000]

Then the next question is, why not go to a T1 engine with T3 cooling fan?

From what I recall the limiting factor with the T1 was engine case strength. There are now aftermarket cases eliminating that issue.

[flmont]

Oh, researching what to do with my car a couple years back,either stroke the 4 or go water pumper,..I ran across all those crazy built VW's and thought why cant I build a type whatever engine but its also said the fitment can be a issue.maybe my other 914 could go type 3 or something ??

[McMark]

Honestly, I can't believe that nobody's put a T1 into a 914 before. Well, I'm SURE it's been done. I guess I can't believe it's not done more.

[Mikey914]

My understanding it's the T2 with the dual relief case you want to build. I had one built a long time ago when I snapped the crank on my 66 912. It put out way more power and was quite reliable at least for the year I had it running.

The cooling housing and exhaust ports are the issues. They are cheaper to build, but you are going to have to do some modifications to make it work.

Mark

[DM_2000]

The T2 case will have 3 bosses around the oil pump for the engine mount. If a regular case is used, an adapter would be needed.

The 2X relief is based on year not type.

The type 3 motor has a cooling fan setup like a T4 .

Cooling tin for any of these motors would need to be extended so it seals to the 914 body. This is critical to prevent hot air from recirculating into the engine compartment.

I just looked at a 2056 , 2270 and 2563 engine kit that includes everything except a block / tin / cooling / ignition / fuel . These are $ 9,400 to $ 9,800 for 120 to 190 HP, I don't know what a T1 will cost to build but is has to be way less these days.

[r_towle]

Honestly, I can't believe that nobody's put a T1 into a 914 before. Well, I'm SURE it's been done. I guess I can't believe it's not done more.

I agree!

[DM_2000]

T1 into early 912

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=32894

There were also some threads about a Porsche trans in a T1 Bug that I can find again at the moment.

A T4 capable manual trans has a longer pilot on the input shaft than the T1, this would need to be addressed.

Summit is showing fully assembled long block zero mile 2275 and 2332 T1 engines for $ 3,300 and $ 3,400, ( This is less tin, cooling , flywheel / clutch, fuel , ignition ) I didn't look at HP though.

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