Failed Miserably beeding my brakes....., even fabricated my own pressure bleeder Options

[monkei]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif)
man im pissed. spent all of memorial day weekend (and a good amount of $) and i cant drive my car because the pedal goes to the floor. i replaced pads all around, got in new stainless braided lines, but i couldnt seem to get out all the air judging by the pedal feel when i went to test drive it. whats weird is i went through the bleeding method several times and tried to do it all accoding to the pelican parts article linked below. before i went to set the venting clearance the last time before i put on the wheels and tried testing the brake system the pedal felt fine, in fact it felt good.

so the way i went about it, i made my own pressure bleeder with a pressure gauge and kept that at 15-20 psi the whole time and stomped the pedal to hopefully open the proportioning valve and the went about bleeding each caliper bottom to top till i saw no bubbes and i saw nothing but new blue fluid. after that i adjusted my rear venting clearances to .008 and got her back on wheels to try it out only to find the pedal went right to the floor on the first pedal stroke. what am i doing wrong!!?? Are you supposed to open and close the bleeder valve before the downward pedal stroke is even finished? i feel like this should have been pretty straightforward, but like everything else on the brakes i tried to do this weekend (get new pads in, remove old brake lines), it wasnt. at this point im too broke, tired and dirty to attempt it again today. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

PP tech brake bleeding: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...leed_brakes.htm

randy, feel free to include anything i may have forgotten to mention......

[JoeSharp]

BTDT. Just do it again. I had a car that required bleeding 3 times to give me any pedel pressure. I still had to do it again.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

[SLKWrx]

I'm going to throw in the sanity check here. New pads have a coating on them that you need to burn off. Whenever I install new pads, the first few times braking while I'm bedding them in, the pedal has 0 resistance.

Any chance this could be your problem?

[CptTripps]

So with this 'fabricated pressure bleeder'...you set it up to push air into the resivouir, and then opened one brake at a time...allowing about a cup of fluid to come out before tightening them up again...right?

Here is the order I do them in.

Pass Rear - Driver Rear - Pass Front - Driver Front

To do it RIGHT, I expect to go throught 2-3 quarts of fluid.

Another question....in the pedel cluster...

Is the brake pin extended out all the way? Maybe it's just 'short' of where you need to be?

I feel your pain man...I did that all day, and then broke the bleeder valve off inside the caliper!

[solex]

Sounds like you did not get all of the air out of your system. I feel your pain, I have been working on my brakes for quite some time now (not that I have much time to begin with).

Can you describe your pressure bleeder system/ Perhaps you can get a helper and bleed the brakes the manual way and don't forget to bleed the proportioning valve.

Also before you did the work you described what did your pedal "feel" like, basically what is the condition of your MC before you started?

[Joe Bob]

I hate those things....either get a buddy/girlfriend and do it the two person way....OR ...get some speedbleeders....

[monkei]

ill post a pic of my homemade pressure bleeder.... is there a bleeder valve at the proportioning valve that i should be bleeding as well? I did the same order. pass rear driver rear pass front driver front....CPT, what brake pin are you referring to? i dont think its just braking in the pads, the pedal goes to the floor. im wondering if maybe i should wait until i have a new master cylinder..... but it was stopping before, just not super fast.... i saw some moisture at some brake hose junctions before i went stainless so maybe that might explain weak brakes before i opened this can of worms......

[solex]

no bleeder at the proportioning valve, you need to crack the line on the top of the valve when the system is under pressure. This is a bit of a pain unless the engine or the front engine tin is removed.

[ruddyboys]

Had the same problem, bled the brakes 4 times. I loosened the line at the prop valve and had someone step on the brakes (had the engine out) and that cleared up the brake problem If you do this put a rag around the line so the fluid doen't go all over the place, don't ask how I know. Good luck

[Cap'n Krusty]

THE VENTING CLEARANCE IS .004", NOT .008"! The book was wrong in the beginning, and it's still wrong today! The rotor has to be secured against the hub to measure it accurately, and you have to turn the rotor and feel the drag of the feeler gauge. As for bleeding, it's a simple process, and best done with 2 people. The hazards of using a pressure bleeder FAR outweigh any benefits. While I've never had to bleed a prop valve, I know others that have. As for SS braided brake hoses, be prepared to do this bleeding every 2 years, when you replace the hoses, or sooner when one (or more) fails. The Cap'n

[MarkG]

During my major suspension and brake up-grade (rebuilt F calipers, new 19mm M/C and hoses, rotors and Porterfield R4S pads) I was able to get fair but not confidence building pedal preasure.

Had shop that did my alignmrnt bleed brakes for me too; they said Proportioning valve was bad and needed to be replaced, they could not get firm pedal either.

My power bleeder (from Pelican) arrived last week, hooked it up Saturday and spent 15 minutes power-bleeding the rear calipers.

I now have a VERY solid pedal, stops mighty good!! oh, and the original proportioning valve was untouched......

[914GT]

I think the proportioning valve gets blamed for causing a lot of problems when bleeding, but in reality it does not have that much effect. Despite its size it really does not hold much fluid, and brake fluid passes through it easily. It does not need to have the brake pedal 'stomped on' to open it, in fact just the opposite happens as it closes off under high pressures to limit the pressure to the rear calipers. A brake pedal that goes to the floor after bleeding with the bleeder screws closed off means the master cylinder is bad, or there are still air pockets trapped on the inlet ports of the MC or air inside the cylinder. Sometimes it can be a real pain in the butt to get the MC fully primed on the car, and air bubbles can get trapped in the plastic lines going to the reservoir too because of the way they are routed under the gas tank. Once the air is out of the MC then you'll feel it will build up pressure but it will still be mushy until all the air is out of the lines.

[Carrera916]

Monkei (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/monkeydance.gif)

PM me.... we'll get that frigging brake fix one way or another...

I think something is being overlooked somewhere and it CAN break your conjos when you're trying to chase/solve the problems (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif) ....we can do it together this week and see from there......just PM me


j

[drgchapman]

I also feel your pain. 3-4 quarts of blue brake fluid to get good pedal, 2 days of frustration. I used the two person method, speed bleeders, pressure feed.............One of your problems is the rear venting clearance is .004, not .008. With .008 you may never get a good pedal, it is quite sensitve. Cracking the top fitting on the prop valve, I'm told helps as well, i didn't need to do this. Speed bleeders help alot, can do with one person if you've run every one off being pissed off.

Hang in there, once you get it, you got it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[solex]

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ May 31 2005, 08:21 AM)

THE VENTING CLEARANCE IS .004", NOT .008"!

uh-oh I need to re-adjust the venting clearance! Thanks CAP'N