Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Would the welders look at this please
BPic
post Mar 19 2019, 06:59 PM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 341
Joined: 5-February 18
From: Miami, Florida
Member No.: 21,864
Region Association: South East States
I've been welding in this car for a year and never had anything like this happen.

I ran out of gas and the welder was doing fine. Got a new bottle delivered today and hooked it up. When I started welding it sounded different, lots of soot, the metal doesn't puddle the way it did before and the welds look like crap! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Attached Image

The other thing that happens is that the wire fuses itself to the gun tip. Settings are the same on the machine and everything was fine. The only thing that changed was a new bottle of gas. I'm sure it's possible for them to put the wrong mix or the wrong gas but before I call them is there something else I should be looking at? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Thanks in advance, Brad
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
roblav1
post Mar 19 2019, 07:13 PM
Post #2


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 528
Joined: 18-September 12
From: KY
Member No.: 14,943
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
Contaminated gas? Running straight argon, right? Who's the supplier? Brownish-yellow haze looks like bad gas. Same thing happened to me. My welder puddled cleanly then changed bottles and all went to crap. I picked up a new bottle today (Airgas) so I'll see if it's better tomorrow.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mepstein
post Mar 19 2019, 07:19 PM
Post #3


914-6 GT in waiting
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 19,578
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE
Member No.: 10,825
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
@MB911
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Mar 19 2019, 08:08 PM
Post #4


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,502
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch
Bad gas

It can happen to the best of us.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

No seriously (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Leak check your connections and hose first
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tazz9924
post Mar 19 2019, 08:11 PM
Post #5


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 716
Joined: 31-May 15
From: Mooresville NC
Member No.: 18,779
Region Association: None
It looks like you are missing a good amount of gas. Possibilities: Did you take off the wire feed hose? somtimes when you put the feed hose back on it doesn’t go all the way in and it leaks gas, listen for leaks near the machine and gas coming out of the gun/ torch when you hit the button. What type of gas do you have? co2 air mix for mig, argon for tig. Is the gas on (stupid sounding question but you never know)? Is the flow rate high enough? depending on machine and wind. On mig it’s about 20-35 gph (or was it liters per hour..... just read what it says on ur machine). Just give everything a good once over and im sure you’ll find the problem, good luck!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Andyrew
post Mar 19 2019, 08:32 PM
Post #6


Spooling.... Please wait
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,376
Joined: 20-January 03
From: Riverbank, Ca
Member No.: 172
Region Association: Northern California
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)


What does the bottle say?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Mar 19 2019, 08:44 PM
Post #7


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,213
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Looks like 100% argon to me.. It will be a sluggish weld.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mgp4591
post Mar 19 2019, 09:06 PM
Post #8


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,470
Joined: 1-August 12
From: Salt Lake City Ut
Member No.: 14,748
Region Association: Intermountain Region
QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 19 2019, 08:44 PM) *

Looks like 100% argon to me.. It will be a sluggish weld.

Don't most people use the 80/20 ArCO2 mix?
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
roblav1
post Mar 19 2019, 10:28 PM
Post #9


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 528
Joined: 18-September 12
From: KY
Member No.: 14,943
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
I wasn't sure if he's using MIG or TIG. I've always used straight Argon with TIG on steel.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Andyrew
post Mar 19 2019, 10:32 PM
Post #10


Spooling.... Please wait
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,376
Joined: 20-January 03
From: Riverbank, Ca
Member No.: 172
Region Association: Northern California
QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Mar 19 2019, 08:06 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 19 2019, 08:44 PM) *

Looks like 100% argon to me.. It will be a sluggish weld.

Don't most people use the 80/20 ArCO2 mix?

75/25. Co2/argon.


Pure argon is typically for welding aluminum.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Mar 20 2019, 04:32 AM
Post #11


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,213
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Mar 19 2019, 07:06 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 19 2019, 08:44 PM) *

Looks like 100% argon to me.. It will be a sluggish weld.

Don't most people use the 80/20 ArCO2 mix?



75/25 is the standard for MIG and 100 argon for TIG
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
BPic
post Mar 20 2019, 04:33 AM
Post #12


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 341
Joined: 5-February 18
From: Miami, Florida
Member No.: 21,864
Region Association: South East States
Thanks everyone. I’m running a mig with 75/25. Checked everything, no leaks and replaced the nozzle and tip. I’ll call th gas company.

Thanks again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Mar 20 2019, 05:48 AM
Post #13


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,213
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Could be a combo of the gas/windy conditions and base metal changes..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Mar 21 2019, 12:43 PM
Post #14


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,502
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch
Curious, did you get new bottle of gas and did the issue resolve itself?



Playing with welding Titanium. Uses absurd amounts of gas and needs to be purged on the backside.

Rest assured, I won't be doing any aircraft welding.


Top is absolute crap weld; too much heat not enough gas
Middle is getting better but is still crap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
Bottom; closer yet but I think I need bigger #16 cup and a bit less heat. Should be pure shiny silver. That golden straw color is borderline.


Attached Image

Need more practice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jeff Hail
post Mar 21 2019, 09:31 PM
Post #15


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,141
Joined: 3-May 07
From: LA/ CA
Member No.: 7,712
QUOTE(BPic @ Mar 19 2019, 05:59 PM) *

I've been welding in this car for a year and never had anything like this happen.

I ran out of gas and the welder was doing fine. Got a new bottle delivered today and hooked it up. When I started welding it sounded different, lots of soot, the metal doesn't puddle the way it did before and the welds look like crap! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Attached Image

The other thing that happens is that the wire fuses itself to the gun tip. Settings are the same on the machine and everything was fine. The only thing that changed was a new bottle of gas. I'm sure it's possible for them to put the wrong mix or the wrong gas but before I call them is there something else I should be looking at? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Thanks in advance, Brad


Try this first.
First issue is that steel is coated. Need to grind it clean like that small swipe halfway through the upper weld except everywhere you are going to sample. Pull the nozzle off and clean the slag out as it may be shorting your contact tip causing the wire to stick to the tip. Check the gas diffuser while the nozzle is off while you are in their and make sure its not plugged with slag balls and gas is flowing. Change the tip. Purge both sides of the regulator. Open the tank valve and then while you are squeezing the gun trigger open up the flow regulator to about 45, then wind it back down to normal flow rate .

What regulator are you using? C02? C02 with adaptor or an Argon regulator?

That rusty almond frost around your welds looks like restricted shielding gas or really low to almost no flow.

Gas blends vary by far with industrial suppliers so perfect 75/25 mixes aren't realistic, 75 – 95 percent Argon and 5 – 25 percent CO2 is considered the normal these days when filled from a manifold. Its not much of an issue welding, both work fine even if the blend % is off. Most people would not notice it.

Does the tank they gave you have a painted shoulder that's different than the primary color of the tank? If so what color is the shoulder?

Last.
If you think the fill is contaminated take the tank back and tell them you have a slugged tank, they should exchange it -it happens.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
roblav1
post Mar 22 2019, 07:52 AM
Post #16


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 528
Joined: 18-September 12
From: KY
Member No.: 14,943
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
My issue was bad gas. A new tank and all is well. Never had that happen before.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mepstein
post Mar 22 2019, 08:22 AM
Post #17


914-6 GT in waiting
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 19,578
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE
Member No.: 10,825
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
QUOTE(roblav1 @ Mar 22 2019, 09:52 AM) *

My issue was bad gas. A new tank and all is well. Never had that happen before.

It happens to all of us. My dog is the worst.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bbrock
post Mar 22 2019, 08:28 AM
Post #18


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,269
Joined: 17-February 17
From: Montana
Member No.: 20,845
Region Association: Rocky Mountains
QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 22 2019, 08:22 AM) *

QUOTE(roblav1 @ Mar 22 2019, 09:52 AM) *

My issue was bad gas. A new tank and all is well. Never had that happen before.

It happens to all of us. My dog is the worst.


Yeah, yeah, I blame my dog too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Mar 22 2019, 09:33 AM
Post #19


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,502
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch
Still curious if OP's problem went away.


@Jeff Hail

Jeff, any advice on TIG'ing Galvanneal? I've tried grinding it back (both sides) but some of the zinc is actually annealed into the steel and can't be removed by grinding and still leads to electrode contamination and puddle pops.


Attached Image

Not an issue for MIG. At this point it's painfully slow with TIG but I'm surviving. However, the thought of going back to a MIG rig has crossed my mind several times now.

Best success I've had is by feeding as much filler as quickly as I can. I suspect it helps dilute the zinc in the puddle by getting fresh filler (ER70-S2) in there.

Apologize for thread high jack. I'll post fresh thread if I've offended anyone but this appears to have the attention of the welders among us.






User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mark Henry
post Mar 22 2019, 10:36 AM
Post #20


that's what I do!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 20,065
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Port Hope, Ontario
Member No.: 26
Region Association: Canada
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 22 2019, 11:33 AM) *


@Jeff Hail

Jeff, any advice on TIG'ing Galvanneal? I've tried grinding it back (both sides) but some of the zinc is actually annealed into the steel and can't be removed by grinding and still leads to electrode contamination and puddle pops.




Talk to @Peteyd at Restoration Design besides the panels they do some high end resto's and have a full time metal guy tig welding their panels that are Galvanneal. RD might even have a vid on YT showing how they prep their panels.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · 914World Garage · Next Newest »
 

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st October 2024 - 05:06 PM
Invision Power Board v9.1.4 © 2024  IPS, Inc.
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community!
We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ...