all this talk about jobs..., long term plan for starting a shop Options

[xsboost90]

since i was a kid all i wanted to be was a business owner. My parents convinced me i wanted to be an engineer, but everyone i know that was one either didnt like it or couldnt find a good job. I took a year of industrial design and some autocad classes for mech. engineering that i need to finish. My problem is the idea of working in an office isnt what i want.

Ive always wanted to start my own shop- seems everyone does- but im not doing it unless im sure i am prepared and can be successful. I have plenty of mechanical experience, and can fabricate things like crazy, mostly whats holding me back is money and tooling. My plan is to build a nice sized garage in the next year or two and start collecting more tools and building/restoring p-cars and such. I may try to get into fabbing custom parts as well, we'll see.

My QUESTION is , should i go to work for a reputable shop first and learn the rights and wrongs , ins and outs or just jump in and learn on my own. Currently im a safety director for a health care facility, but have been a mechanic for two years and worked at a body shop for some time + learned alot from my father =bodyman for 20+ years. I may get him to come work w/ me as well...may even be interested in building street rods. Or how about this, street rods w/ porsche motors and drivetrain! There is a shop nearby that restores old bugs and buses, called metalcraft coachwerks. I always want to ask for a job there when i see the owner but, health ins 401k etc may not be an option. I think ill wait till my g/f graduates from nursing school before i make a big change. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[zymurgist]

Can't give you much advice on learning the trade, but I've been thinking much the same thing. One of the guys in my Corvette club wants to build hot rods like Boyd... I was thinking that if he does, I'd perhaps work part time, doing detail work and building skills that I don't have like welding.

Giving up the 401K and the health insurance, though... that's a tough choice.

[jet1]

QUOTE

since i was a kid all i wanted to be was a business owner. My parents convinced me i wanted to be an engineer, but everyone i know that was one either didnt like it or couldnt find a good job. I took a year of industrial design and some autocad classes for mech. engineering that i need to finish. My problem is the idea of working in an office isnt what i want.

Ha, you sound like me! I just graduated with a degree in Industrial Design. Now I am trying to figure out what I want to do. I have worked in an office before and never want to do it again. My favorite job so far has been working with a tree removal company, but the pay was bad and no benefits.

I think if you can start your own business then do it. look into getting a loan?? I think with most small business ventures you have to take a risk. Whatever you do, good luck!

[McMark]

If you can save up 10k or more, you'll reduce the risk and stress. Get customers before you start paying rent if you can. That's all I can think of right now.

[URY914]

Think "CASH FLOW"!!!

Who will you be selling to and how are you going to make a profit?

You'll need to pump out the work if you want to make a living doing it.

It will be tough at first.

Paul

[Brett W]

Do like some others I know. Start small, build you a nice shop that will allow you to take on some work. Work your day job and bust ass all night long on the side work. If you do good work then people will bring more work than you can do at night. Then you can quit the day job and you are on your way. If you want this bad enough then you will have to earn it, but it can be done. What ever you do, DON"T GET A LOAN. That will put the wrong kind of pressure on you.

[Root_Werks]

Yep, start small, build your rep amoung the automotive community for your target market. This can take a few years to do. I do my shop part time out of my house and turn down a lot of work because I don't have the time with me working a regular day job.

Things are different for everyone, but my piece of advise is be careful of taking on more than you can do. It is easy to get burried in work. I can't even tell you how many times I would come home from work to see a driveway full of Porsches. I use to have a day drop box with envelopes and everything. I would wind up working on cars until midnight and still have to get up at 5AM to go to work.

So I think in the begining it is a balance, then will come the "plunge" if you choose to do it full time. This is the stage I am at. I have had multiple opportunities to rent out a few local shops ect. But have never followed through on them. As much as I hate my desk job, it is risky and hard to give up the paycheck, 401K, vacation and such.

I don't know if my words will help. Just try it in moderation and give it some time. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[Joe Bob]

If you can afford it....find one or two excellent people that have crappy management/accounting skills. Put them to work and YOU be the boss....work when a project excites you or is needed due to a time crunch.

Keep the other job....

[Jakester]

Sounds like you're in a good place, Dan. That place being a spot where you are looking at life and seeing that your future is in your hands.

Remember, those who risk nothing, gain nothing.

I went through a similar decision point in my life not too long ago. After being a desk-jockey engineer for 6 years I got laid off in the dot-com bust and got a 6-month golden handshake. After looking hard at what I wanted to do with my career, I decided that I wanted to pursue becoming a fire fighter. I took almost 3 years off to retrain and gain relevant experience. In that time I went to school, drove a tow truck, drove an ambulance, drove a fire engine (as a volunteer FF for 2 years), turned a wrench for a facilities maintenance team and generally dabbled in careers I'd only seen from afar.

Also in that time, we were blessed to have two healthy children born into our family. With that blessing came increased responsibility, however, and since the fire fighter thing was not happening quickly enough (I tested and interviewed for the entire 3 years without landing a permanent position), I had to fall back to my engineering. I have resolved that taking care of my family both financially and physically (i.e. being home) is more fulfilling than the perfect dream job.

I too, have always wanted to be part of a shop. That's why I was excited to jump on Andy's proposal to keep Brad's shop alive through a group effort. I saw it as a great opportunity to make new friends, have an ultra-cool hangout spot and scratch that itch. Alas, that plan fell through. There's still hope of it working out somewhere else with the right mix of people, I'm sure.

I suspect that you don't have the responsibility of a family of your own yet. If you are thinking that you need to make a major life change - now is the time! It won't get any easier than now and you don't want to look back and wish you tried but didn't because you were worried about not having a 401k plan.

Good luck and I hope it works out for you! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[lapuwali]

Like Mark said, start saving now. Having several months of cash flow available on hand at any time is pretty much a necessity if a small business is to live. Suppliers demand payment early and deliver late. Customers demand delivery early and pay late. Having enough cash on hand to serve as a cushion for that customer/supplier gap makes for much easier sleeping.

Start the business on the side and if it grows enough to go full time, do it. Look at the vendors and suppliers section on this board. Most of the suppliers are NOT doing that full time, but have day jobs.

[Root_Werks]

Jake, thanks for the words and advise. I do have a family. By the time I was 19, I had my first house, kid, car payment, two jobs and a wife that wanted to stay home. 6 years later I quit working the second job, she went to work part time. 2 years after that, we split up.

Taking risks; been there, done that, still do it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Hopefully, I am just a little less dumb these days with the risks I take. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[MikeP]

KEEP GOOD RECORDS!!
My business is accounts receivable finance. You wouldn't believe how many of my clients are dependant on me to meet their payroll simply because they don't keep track of who they owe and who owes them. There is a lot of good advice in this thread but I can't stress enough what the others have said about a cash cushion. My clients pay me a lot of money because they ran out of cushion somewhere along the line. Good for me, not so good for them. Run it like a big company right from the start. Figure out how you are going to buy, bill, store, etc. before things get crazy and time to do the planning just isn’t available. Good luck!

[xsboost90]

thanks for the advise. Ive been doing as many side jobs as possible and am starting to get known at least among locals, i think ive painted four 944's, one 914 and im doing a wide body kit on a 924 + working on several other cars and non p-cars ive done in the past. Im trying to decide which way i want to go cuz painting really is a tough business, i would rather do more fabrication than painting. This winter i may have another 944 to do a color change on and help w/ a 968 motor swap into it, among other projects. Yeah my driveway is always full. Thanks for the advise, keep it coming.

what do you think about getting a job w/ another shop first though?

[Lyressa Roberts]

I have to agree with McMark, save lots of money before you start to minimize the stress. Then, make sure you have accounting skills and know how to deposit a check and how to pay bills and when to know not to spend $ on the wrong stuff or take on the wrong projects...if you can't do that, then I say "RUN!!! RUN VERY FAR AWAY!!!"

This coming from someone who was on the outskirts of it for over 3 years.

[Verruckt]

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jun 28 2005, 01:29 PM)

what do you think about getting a job w/ another shop first though?

I would think that getting a job at an existing shop, maybe even one that does what you want to do, would be invaluable. But then, I have no exp. in this area. If you do something you love, the success will come in time. I wish you luck

[bd1308]

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jun 28 2005, 01:29 PM)

thanks for the advise. Ive been doing as many side jobs as possible and am starting to get known at least among locals, i think ive painted four 944's, one 914 and im doing a wide body kit on a 924 + working on several other cars and non p-cars ive done in the past. Im trying to decide which way i want to go cuz painting really is a tough business, i would rather do more fabrication than painting. This winter i may have another 944 to do a color change on and help w/ a 968 motor swap into it, among other projects. Yeah my driveway is always full. Thanks for the advise, keep it coming. what do you think about getting a job w/ another shop first though?

well i can put my belongings into my 914 and park and live outside of your shop, i'll work for ya.....always wanted to learn how to weld stuff

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[drew365]

I have been in business for myself since 1980, so I guess I'm over the hump. Prior to that I worked for two successful businesses in my trade. What I learned by working for them has been invaluable to my success. 80% of my decisions are based on how my old bosses did things, both good and bad. So I recommend you work for a high volume successful business in your trade if you can swing it and pay real close attention to the organization, why their customers keep coming back, pricing, how they keep a qualified workforce, where they buy supplies at the best prices. This is the kind of knowledge that will get you past the 10 year mark that most small business never make it to. Learning from others mistakes is a lot cheaper. Also, figure on a good accounting system from day 1, you can't stay in business unless you can sit down and look at all the numbers every now and than and see what makes you money and what doesn't. Then eliminate the work that doesn't.

[xsboost90]

thanks for the advise. There is only one or two shops i would consider working for right now and getting in may not be easy. Ill have to smooze my way in w/ my good looks or alcohol...hm.

Hey not to get off topic, but on my resume side, anyone get the latest truckin magazine w/ the pink humvee on the cover? Flip to page 252, its a truck that a friend of mine had built and the kid doing the work messed everything up, so i had to redo all the body work, fit the panels and repaint, assemble and all. The person writing the article made up a ficticious shop "jones" which ive never heard of so ignore that but it does mention my name somewhat. hey i gotta get my resume out there somehow right?

[xsboost90]

my last 944 which i painted and swapped to euro bumper, turbo valance and turbo nose. I painted the wheels too!

[xsboost90]

my buds s2 that i stripped to primer and painted which won first place at the first show he took it to..of course it couldve been the wheels.