A little muffler porn Options

[Mikey914]

Working on a mount for the mufflers. Liking it so far but need to make some further adjustments.

[mlindner]

looking good Mark...Are those transmission bolts in upside down?

[914werke]

Heres one ...new Bursch

[JamesM]

They finally figured out how to keep them from rusting the moment you fire up the car!

Heres one ...new Bursch

[jim_hoyland]

They finally figured out how to keep them from rusting the moment you fire up the car!

Heres one ...new Bursch

The muffler was the first place the rust started on mine; and that’s the same muffler previously used,. I have one and the number is the same

[mb911]

Really. Unbelievable. Whatever carry on.

[mepstein]

They finally figured out how to keep them from rusting the moment you fire up the car!

Heres one ...new Bursch

The muffler was the first place the rust started on mine; and that’s the same muffler previously used,. I have one and the number is the same

They make a stainless version.

[mepstein]

Working on a mount for the mufflers. Liking it so far but need to make some further adjustments.

Might as well just use Ben’s as a template

[jim_hoyland]

My 914 Rubber SS Muffler; a drive around the block…

https://youtu.be/kwBMezZGioc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwBMezZGioc

[914werke]

They make a stainless version.

That is the stainless version. That is all they sell now. That Im aware there is no option for a mild steel version.
& Jim you are correct still a aluminized steel muffler section, which would be fine ... if the assembly was delivered flanged so the avg. guy w/o welder could buy a different unit & update it

[barefoot]

Working on a mount for the mufflers. Liking it so far but need to make some further adjustments.

You need to consider differential thermal expansion as the H/E's expand lots more than the engine & tranny cases when at operating temperatures.
Thats why the OEM brackets are somewhat free to swing fore & aft.
Don't clamp muffler directly to tranny case.

[Superhawk996]

Really. Unbelievable. Whatever carry on.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Would rather see improvement made to the rubber products than a recycling of Ben’s muffler.

Yeah - it’s polished - Ben’s mufflers can be polished too if you wish.

What I can’t get elsewhere is seals that fit properly. Would love to see 914Rubber focusing on improving that aspect of the core business .

[Superhawk996]

Working on a mount for the mufflers. Liking it so far but need to make some further adjustments.

Might as well just use Ben’s as a template

I just don’t understand this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

It’s one thing to be offering the products that used to be supplied by Ben.

In my opinion, it’s in poor taste to be rubbing this in face of the community.

Let me guess - a polished aluminum oil tank next?

If I’m way off base and missing something I don’t understand please feel to spank me in public.

[Mikey914]

Look,
Ben's not making them. I like the idea of a tubular chamber (simulr to the ANSA exhaust). That what I had been running.

I like the Triads also, and would carry them if they were made in quantity that I could stock.

I tried to support Ben on his offerings, bought them, stocked them, sold them. Ben announces he's not going to do the stainless anylonger. So now that we have demand for them, and they are not available what should I do?????

I committed to making these in mass. Also to improve the current offering. We are making custom flame tubes to produce a "quite version" Not copying anything that has been done previously. Did we look at them and say what can we improve, you bet. But as they are not being produced by Ben, we stepped up.

As for the mounting flange, I bent up some metal quickly and as you can see it fit's poorly. I need to improve the design to allow for flex and correct angles.

[Mikey914]

They make a stainless version.

That is the stainless version. That is all they sell now. That Im aware there is no option for a mild steel version.
& Jim you are correct still a aluminized steel muffler section, which would be fine ... if the assembly was delivered flanged so the avg. guy w/o welder could buy a different unit & update it

Our cost for the stainless is good enough that if you look at the savings for going to steel, it isn't a great value. The stainless is really the superior product. The bigest cost in labor.

[Superhawk996]

I tried to support Ben on his offerings, bought them, stocked them, sold them. Ben announces he's not going to do the stainless anylonger. So now that we have demand for them, and they are not available what should I do?????

That is a really good question.

I can say in all honesty - I don’t know with certainty. But what I can also say in all honesty is that I have been a customer of yours as well as Ben’s and I respect each of you. I intend to keep doing business with each of you since you each produced needed products.

Usually things like this come down to how would you want to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot? Maybe there is no “right” thing. What I can say is that “appearances” are often perceived as reality.

Maybe if you are going to produce them, then either do it in the back ground rather than having the appearance of having lifted Ben’s designs and then flaunting it to the community? And yes, I get that Ben probably leveraged the 911 and/or OEM 914 designs to get to where his product was at. Maybe Ben should have put a patent or patent pending protection in place assuming he even had enough uniqueness of the design which might not have been feasible since a muffler is a muffler. Either way, it would take time and $$ to do put any protection in place which would drive up costs even further for the customer but adds no value for the customer. Maybe just acknowledging that it is based off Ben’s design is sufficient to give credit where credit is due? Maybe a gentleman’s royalty of 1 case of beer per unit produced - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)? It is a tough call - I’ll grant you that.

I’m sure there is more to this story that I don’t know and I probably don’t even want to know. It’s just been a crazy two years of chaos and supply chain disruptions and I don’t like the appearance that a design was / is being pilfered. That’s just my opinion.

Business is competitive and dog eat dog by it’s nature. I just hate to see it within such a small tight community as we have. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[barnfind9141972]

Both Ben and 914Rubber make amazing contributions to our community, but let’s be honest. If 914Rubber quit the game and someone here bought everyone of their items and had them remade, would anyone care? Making a 100% from scratch design for anything costs time and money, as if time wasn’t enough money as it is. Why not reverse engineer or improve or modify a proven design? I mean unless Ben was open to making every single hangar/bracket 914Rubber needed for a price that made sense to Mark there’s nothing to be said. People will keep buying from Ben if/when he decides to make them again, but we live in a need now world.

[nditiz1]

I echo this statement

"Would love to see 914Rubber focusing on improving that aspect of the core business"

I haven't checked on specific parts for awhile, but this year I have tried to place orders for various parts that were just out of stock. I check back a week later, still OOS. Maybe update the page with an estimated time. Maybe keep parts in stock longer.

Back on topic, I can see both sides here. I for one have Ben's GT style mount on Ben's muffler. I can sympathize with Ben about treading on the road he paved. BUT If someone that used to make the product is no longer making them then what can I do, but produce my own, especially if I have the means to do so.

[Superhawk996]

Both Ben and 914Rubber make amazing contributions to our community, but let’s be honest. If 914Rubber quit the game and someone here bought everyone of their items and had them remade, would anyone care? Making a 100% from scratch design for anything costs time and money, as if time wasn’t enough money as it is. Why not reverse engineer or improve or modify a proven design? I mean unless Ben was open to making every single hangar/bracket 914Rubber needed for a price that made sense to Mark there’s nothing to be said. People will keep buying from Ben if/when he decides to make them again, but we live in a need now world.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

In principle I agree - there is certainly truth to all you’ve said.

I came out of the chute being pretty harsh. As I’ve stated, I don’t think I have all the facts of what is going on “behind the scene”.

I’ve come out of the OEM automotive world and trust me when I say I’ve had 1st hand experience where there was joint development between the OEM and a supplier where you later find out the supplier has sold your joint design to a competitor. It happens. Usually it’s not worth litigating. Whether that is what happened here or not, it would be hard to say given I don’t have all the facts.

In the end it is business and market competition and you are right that people can make their own decisions. Just a shame to see it in such a small market and tight community.

Bottom line: I’ve supported both of these guys and I will continue to do so. I was being a jerk by throwing the oil tank commentary in there which was uncalled for. Just glad I was able to get Ben’s mufflers and headers before those went off the market. Those headers are a near duplicate of the OEM design (but in stainless) and I fully get that buying those was exactly what was described - need it now - don’t really care who made them but yet appreciated that Ben was making them available when no one else was.

[Maltese Falcon]

Really. Unbelievable. Whatever carry on.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/marty914.jpg)