Cheapest Brake Upgrades, and hopefully a definitive list Options

[muddboy]

I have been reading and looking (in the search) all over the forums for the options on front brake upgrades. I've known about the BMW calipers for along time. I would like to know whats really availible as upgrades. I know there are also some really wild ones if you have a 911 front end.

Here's my problem, I have a stock '73 front end. It has been converted to 5-lug (drilled stock rotors). I have been throwing front pads at it about every 4months (not bad at only 14 bucks a set). But I am tired of Band-aiding it. I would like to run vented rotors in the front (I have vented for the rear, also 5-lug, to run with spacers and stock calipers). I'm not woried about any mods or machinework (occupation). So I just need to know what parts to get togther to do this. And OH... under 300 bucks (hopefully).

[Mueller]

what are you trying to fix?

the need for new pads every 4 months?

you could start off by getting some decent pads....$14 just scream "junk" soft pads (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

putting bigger calipers on it will just be a band-aid...sooner or later you'll end up warping the solid rotors........

for 5 lug and vented rotors there is normally just the option of using 911 struts...for you, I see a few options if you are a decent machinest with some basic engineering skills:

1)use an early 911 front strut assembly...vented rotors and should be less than $300 for the pair and that should include the calipers

2)make a set of new hubs similar to the 4-lug billet hubs that are offered in the 'club store....for 5 lug, I'd make them for press in studs, easier with the 5 lug design

3)take your stock front hubs and machine off the rotor, install a vented 911 rear rotor...not too sure about the spacing of the caliper, but it cannot be too difficult to figure that out.....Porsche switched to this method of front rotors in '89 with the 964 series 911s and continue this way today.

[Eric_Shea]

Given what you have in the way of stock calipers with spacers on the rear, my short list would be:

1970-1973 911 Front Struts w/M-Calipers and a T-Fitting -or-
1970-1978 911 Front Struts w/A or S-Calipers and a T-Fitting.

The later would probably be heavy on the front brakes. The former would be my favorite with nice pads.

Why are you going through pads so often? Autoxing? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

We have a name in the trade for people who consider "cheap" to be the first criterium for brakes: "Crash victims"...... The Cap'n

[914turboford]

I suppose cheap should not be the first criteria but everyone has their monetary limit. I got my 911 front end 3 years ago for $175 including some 911 rear rotors. I just moved my front calipers to the back and put Volvo 4 piston calipers on the front. Since I had the Volvo calipers lying around from another project they were basically free. The only thing I bought were some longer bolts for $6.58. Now I have 12 pistons worth of brakes and vented rotors front and rear. The brakes feel like they could stop an 18 wheeler. No parking brake though... The tools needed were a Chinese milling machine, flaring tool and regular hand tools. My theory: buy tools, don't pay someone to do stuff for you.

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (914turboford @ Sep 20 2005, 07:45 AM)

I suppose cheap should not be the first criteria but everyone has their monetary limit. I got my 911 front end 3 years ago for $175 including some 911 rear rotors. I just moved my front calipers to the back and put Volvo 4 piston calipers on the front. Since I had the Volvo calipers lying around from another project they were basically free. The only thing I bought were some longer bolts for $6.58. Now I have 12 pistons worth of brakes and vented rotors front and rear. The brakes feel like they could stop an 18 wheeler. No parking brake though... The tools needed were a Chinese milling machine, flaring tool and regular hand tools. My theory: buy tools, don't pay someone to do stuff for you.

So what do you do about a parking brake? It's illegal (not to mention borderline dumb) to operate a motor vehicle on public raods in CA without a working parking brake, one that functions independently of the service brakes. The Cap'n

[andys]

QUOTE (muddboy @ Sep 19 2005, 07:21 PM)

I'm not woried about any mods or machinework (occupation). So I just need to know what parts to get togther to do this. And OH... under 300 bucks (hopefully).

Muddboy,

Being a machinist (?), you could adapt just about anything. If you made your own front hubs, then the possibilities are endless. You could do Wilwood rotors ($39 ea) and Wilwood four pots (under $100 ea), and you'd still have money left over for pads. Someone here did some Mazda cailpers as well. Just a thought.

Andys

[Trekkor]

I run Porterfield race brake pads on stock calipers.

They are an awesome upgrade for $200...

Squeaky, but worth it.

You may want to try a less aggressive pad (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)


KT

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 20 2005, 11:10 AM)

I run Porterfield race brake pads on stock calipers. They are an awesome upgrade for $200... Squeaky, but worth it. You may want to try a less aggressive pad (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) KT

love my Porterfield r4-s (street/AX compund)

[914turboford]

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 20 2005, 07:56 AM)

[QUOTE=So what do you do about a parking brake? It's illegal (not to mention borderline dumb) to operate a motor vehicle on public raods in CA without a working parking brake, one that functions independently of the service brakes. The Cap'n [/QUOTE]

I've only had these brakes on for 3 days and have not worked out the parking brake issue. I'm thinking about some sort of cable operated onboard jack or maybe a scrub brake on one of the back tires.

About the "dumb" comment. Have you ever used your parking brake to stop your car in an emergency? The only time I ever had to was with a 66 Bug when I was in high school. It was totally my fault as I had improperly serviced the brakes and I knew it but drove the car anyways. Parking brakes are for parking (and parking brake spins). Hydraulic brakes are for stopping.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (914turboford @ Sep 20 2005, 10:34 AM)

[QUOTE=Cap'n Krusty,Sep 20 2005, 07:56 AM] [QUOTE=So what do you do about a parking brake? It's illegal (not to mention borderline dumb) to operate a motor vehicle on public raods in CA without a working parking brake, one that functions independently of the service brakes. The Cap'n [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] I've only had these brakes on for 3 days and have not worked out the parking brake issue. I'm thinking about some sort of cable operated onboard jack or maybe a scrub brake on one of the back tires. About the "dumb" comment. Have you ever used your parking brake to stop your car in an emergency? The only time I ever had to was with a 66 Bug when I was in high school. It was totally my fault as I had improperly serviced the brakes and I knew it but drove the car anyways. Parking brakes are for parking (and parking brake spins). Hydraulic brakes are for stopping.

And EMERGENCY brakes are to give you something, ANYTHING, to prevent you from having to scrub off speed by hitting other things. They're not meant to replace the normal brakes, they're only there in case you absolutely need them, and having them is generally better than having nothing...

[davep]

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 20 2005, 06:56 AM)

We have a name in the trade for people who consider "cheap" to be the first criterium for brakes: "Crash victims"...... The Cap'n

I disagree strongly Cap'n. Organ donors is a better term. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

Actually, while they are popularly called parking brakes, they are supposed to be emergency brakes for when the main system fails. That is why they are an independant system. If they are properly set up and maintained they will stop the car; obviously not as quickly as with the front brakes, but in a reasonable fashion. That is why it is illegal to operate a vehicle without a servicable emergency brake.

[MecGen]

Oh Please

Give the guy a "brake"
If he's smart anough to biuld his brake system, he will figure out a system....

99.99999999% of the cars on my lifts have non-functional e-brakes, Winter salt thing.
I would be take 914turboford, behind me in his 914, then a 80+ man/woman, that does't even know the E-brake exsists.

No probls man, if you come out my way with your teener, you will have no choice but to follow me (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif) I trust ya (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Later

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[Mueller]

I'm going to have to argue that they parking brakes...the fact that they can be used in an emergency is a benifit, not a requirement.....

I've looked thru a few documents pertaining to brake system requirments on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and I cannot find anything at all to make them "emergency" brakes.........

one such document:

Vehicle brake requirments

[Eric_Shea]

QUOTE

Oh Please Give the guy a "brake"

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

He's got 49 posts under his belt and you guys are making him feel real welcome. He's a big ass because he didn't use the terminology required to fit the Crustmeisters criteria.

Why would someone be so put off or even phased when a teener used the word cheap? He didn't say he was looking to kill himself or wanted to end it all in a fiery Leif Garrison sort of way. He just wanted a low cost alternative to work with his vented rears that might give him a little more stopping power. Now he's a crash victim/organ donor. Slow day at the shop huh? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

I consider a couple of 911 struts loaded with M-Caliper "Cheap". Does that mean I'm a crash victim/organ donor? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Welcome to the club Muddboy. These boys are fine once the testosterone injections kick in. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[Mueller]

I might have to retract my earlier post (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

I did find this on a site for vehicles in the state of Illinois:

QUOTE

BRAKES: Your vehicle must have two brake systems and brakes on all wheels. The foot brake must be strong enough to stop a vehicle traveling at a speed of 20 miles per hour in 30 feet. The emergency or parking brake must be strong enough to stop the vehicle in 55 ft. at the same speed. The emergency brake also must be able to hold the vehicle on a grade or hill.

Now is this State specific or national???

[smrz914]

Lots of people had lots of good things to say about stock brakes that are in very good condition. $12 brake pads, you get what you pay for. If you want cheep do a good job of rebuilding your stock brakes. Blead the lines properly and then decide if you want to upgrade. And spend more then $12 on pads.

[muddboy]

Ok... I'm not offended... or anything... and I'm not that new to the forum(been a lurker for awhile). And thanks for at least answering. True I should have used "low cost", but I really do mean cheep. If you met my wife you would understand, I have no money.

The reason the pads are only lasting 4 months.... the calipers are bad, need rebuilding and are keeping the pads against the rotors all the time(slightly, and on one pad only). I haven't rebuilt them cuz I want to upgrade, and because its only 10 min. to throw pads at it (easy to do at lunch). I drive my car everyday (have to).

My idea was to take a set of stock hub/rotor, mill the rotor off and modify the remaining hub to take another bolt on rotor. But I build engines all day... not brakes. I can call in the parts to our parts house and get them cheep, if I know what I'm asking for. I really would like to get a 911 front end, I just havent been able to find them (easily for me), at a price that I can afford.

[davep]

Glad you are not easily offended. "English Cop Mode"; cheep is the sound that birds make, cheaper is less expensive.

Okay, if you want to save real money to purchase that 911 front end (not the pre 1969 model if you want something that fits, and avoid the 911E with the hydropneumatic struts), then get some caliper kits and fix those existing calipers. If you are wearing out pads in 4 months due to dragging brakes, then your gas mileage is WAY down. Fix the calipers, save on pads and gas, have functional brakes. With all the money you save, look for some 911T or 914/6 front struts with calipers and rotors. You don't need A arms or steering parts. Best to get them with good ball joints, then they can just drop in. You could use your own ball joints if you match the strut style to the ball joint. 911S generally has the wider caliper bolt spacing (3.5" vs 3") for the S or A calipers with bigger pads. Along with the 911 suspension you need new 5 bolt pattern rims (another expense).

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

Just to throw this out because most people don't realize it i.e. for any auto newbs: Quality, sticky tires are the #1 way to improve braking. They also have the side benefit of improving handling (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

BTW, I've used my emergency/parking brake to stop my car when the main brakes failed. Luckily, it wasn't in an actual "OH CRAP!" emergency but the heart did beat a tad faster for a spell.