 engine sheet metal questions |
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| brant |
 Jan 3 2003, 02:03 PM
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#1
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914 Wizard  Group: Members Posts: 11,632 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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Late8pex had a question which triggered a thought for me.
I've heard from people I trust.. that the sheetmetal/engine shelf is not necessary on a race only 4 cylinder car..... So group and brad... what is the consensus regarding this for a 6 cylinder race only car... On my conversion trailered race car... can I cut the engine shelf out if my class rules allow it? (ditto for the engine tin?) TIA brant |
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Jan 3 2003, 03:00 PM
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Group: Posts: 0 Joined: -- Member No.: 0 |
Not needed!? Mines a 4 banger, and I only race it. Hmm..... It would really clean up the engine bay.
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| brant |
Jan 3 2003, 03:02 PM
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#3
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,632 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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Late8pex...
only my opinion and lets see what others have to add... but a couple of items to consider before you remove the tin: 1) alot of stockish rules would not allow it 2) you had better have other means to cool the motor before you pull it... I'm thinking auxillary coolers, high volume electric fans on the heads... 3) I'm talking sprint type races not enduros.. etc.... brant |
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| campbellcj |
Jan 3 2003, 04:03 PM
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I can't Re Member Group: Members Posts: 4,547 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Agoura, CA Member No.: 21 Region Association: Southern California
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Interesting question. Most of the cars I've seen locally had the full shelf & tin in place. I suspect it would make a big difference if your car is setup for quick autox bursts (1-2 minutes) vs. extended time-trial practice sessions or even enduros (20 mins +).
Not exactly on topic, but I noticed recently that Jim Patrick's HSR 2.0 car has a custom rear "sub floor". He is running normal engine tin though.  |
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Jan 3 2003, 05:59 PM
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#5
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Group: Posts: 0 Joined: -- Member No.: 0 |
Hmm... interesting.... I'll mainly be doing sprint races with the car. Dunno about enduros. I will be running an oil cooler too.
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| Brad Roberts |
Jan 3 2003, 08:20 PM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Cut it all. Even in the stockish classes.. I tell them that it was rusted.. and they beleive me. It makes life MUCH easier to adjust valves and work on the engine.
Common thought is heat: I always run coated headers which drop the temp something like 100 degrees from stock anyway. Thinking back.. I havent owned a 914 race car that has had its shelf in it. Leave one small piece to support the wiring harness above where it enters the chassis. BIGGEST benefit: You can now see that inside trailing arm ear every time you look in the engine compartment... INSPECT THEM after every run session.. just take a quick peek. I normallly paint them in the bright color... white/silver/red B |
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Jan 3 2003, 09:00 PM
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Group: Posts: 0 Joined: -- Member No.: 0 |
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| Gint |
Jan 3 2003, 10:19 PM
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Mike Ginter Group: Admin Posts: 16,082 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Denver CO. Member No.: 20 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
QUOTE Cut it all. Even in the stockish classes.. I tell them that it was rusted.. Just a clarification. Did you mean all of the engine shelf? Or all of the engine tin? Or both? |
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| GWN7 |
Jan 5 2003, 01:38 PM
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Wouldn't the sub floor in the above picture clear up any rear turbulence under the car? So if that's the case wouldn't removing the engine tin help also by removing the scoop effect?
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| J P Stein |
Jan 5 2003, 09:21 PM
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#10
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Hummmm.....never thought on this much.
I believe that one session of agricultural racing would convince me that the shelf & tin is a good thing. |
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| Brad Roberts |
Jan 7 2003, 01:08 AM
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#11
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Ginter.. we cut the tin back and the shelf. I'll post pics tomorrow. I'm finishing a engine up that is trimmed back.
Oh.. It appears Jim Patrick likes to use the Bus Cv axles and the Renegade hybrids adapters for his 901. When I go off track... its the interior that gets hosed.. I know I can wash the engine off.. but you be digging dirt out of the dash vents for months. B |
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| J P Stein |
Jan 7 2003, 03:47 AM
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
And what is that engine cooling fan doing during the off track excursions? I would think that, without the tin, lotso stuff flying about would get sucked up and deposited atop the cylinders/heads. With the tin, the crud has a much more difficult path to the engine room......pure theory here, but logical.
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| Brad Roberts |
Jan 7 2003, 03:52 AM
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#13
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Completey logical.. here is what I have for fans that are exposed..
Remember the dome looking mesh screens you used to see for the back side of the VW fan shrouds ?? Guess what fits the type 4 fan shroud ?? Most of the cars that get cut have the center tunnel sewer pipe actually attached to the fan shroud (nothing can get in). I can only think of one track here that gives us fits when you spin... ButtonWillow. Its in the desert..very dusty and dry. Even with full tin and rubber in place.. Julius had rocks sitting on top of the cylinder heads. It is definately not for everyone. B |
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| Brad Roberts |
Jan 7 2003, 03:56 AM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Chris,
I noticed his floor also. I promise when we run a HSR event that he shows up too... I will protest him. NO vintage 914 race car EVER had a undertray. We know they work. The trays work very well. Ha ha not in the *spirit* of the rules. B |
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| Jeroen |
Jan 7 2003, 07:55 AM
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
I had something similar in mind except with a tray under the engine as well, so it would be running from the firewall to the rearbumper
I guess if a 3.6 can handle an engine tray, my 3.0 won't have any problems with it I can add extra vents if needed later Cut away most of the rear bumper between the taillights and make a big GT1 style diffuser Don't have to worry about rules here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Cars get rated according to power/weight ratio (all cars get dynoed on the same dyno at the start of the season) Cheers, Jeroen (too many stoopid ideas, too little time) |
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Jan 7 2003, 10:45 AM
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#16
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Group: Posts: 0 Joined: -- Member No.: 0 |
so, should I just remove all the tin and leave the ones that cover the cylinder heads? That seems to be what i should do. I'm confused! hehe.
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