Big Problems, can anyone help? Options

[stuart]

Alright, before I even get started I want to warn you all that this is a pretty long story, with a lot of stupid decisions on my part, and a lot of frustrating electrical-type stuff, and I would understand if no one wanted to wrestle with it, because I'm sure you all have much better things to do.

That being said, I just bought my 1st 914 about 5 months ago, and have been able to drive it for a sum total of about 4 weeks, and am starting to feel really hopeless. I've gone as far as I can alone, and probably much further than I should have. So if any of you can help, I would be forever grateful to you. Anyways, here's the story so far:

I live in Kansas, and bought the car (a '75 1.8) in Boulder, CO. It started fine in Boulder, but on the way home we stopped for dinner, and it wouldn't turn over. So, we push-started it and drove home.

When we got home, I looked at the starter connections, and the red, yellow, and black wires were all fine, but there was a blue wire with "30 amp" written on it, that apparently had sheared off at the firewall. So, I had a wire connected at the spade terminal (see pic) and a frayed end. I then spent the next week looking in the engine bay for the other end of the wire, or at least somewhere it was supposed to connect to. I invited a few mechanic friends over, went over the wiring diagrams, sliced bundles of cables, and could find NOTHING. Finally, I gave up and ran wire from the ground post and the spade connector, and used a push-button in the front of the car to arc the two terminals together-which worked, even though it looked a little goofy.


So the car ran for a few weeks, but I noticed a little sputtering around 3500 rpm. I checked the vacuum advance, did the timing, but the sputtering came back. Then, one night I parked the car (and later realized I left the key turned on), and the next morning I tried to start it and it wouldn't catch. So, I disconnected the lead from the coil, grounded it to the fan shroud, and there was no spark.

Now, the car was fitted with a pertronix ignitor module from a previous owner, and I was worried that I might have fried it by leaving the key on. I also wondered about the coil because of the sputtering, and decided to take the opportunity to do an ignition tune-up, so I ordered the Pelican Parts ignition kit with points, plugs, wires, condensor, coil, and distributor rotor and cap. I replaced the coil, wires, rotor, and cap, hoping that the ignitor was still good, because I didn't want to have to put points back in. But...no spark! so, I put the points back in, set the gap to .4 mm, and was going to have my brother crank the engine over to check for spark again.

But, as soon as he turned the key to "on", smoke started coming from the points. Now, I was 80% sure the lead from the points was supposed to connect to the negative terminal on the coil, but not 100%. So, out of frustration and desperation, I tried plugging the green wire from the points onto the positive terminal. Well, there wasn't any smoke, so I had my brother crank the engine again, and it turned over-once. Now, there's nothing when I press the starter button.

So, that's the whole messy story. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Below is a picture of the starter wiring, and then the coil wiring.

[lapuwali]

On the starter, there SHOULD be a big fat wire from the battery + terminal to a screw terminal on the solenoid. This wire is usually red, but covered in black heatproof shielding. There should also be a medium sized yellow wire on a spade terminal (that's from the starter switch). Finally, there's a wire intermediate between those two (also red) that runs up to the alternator (B+ to alternator, just happens to go through the starter).

On the ignition wiring, there should be a black wire from the relay board to the coil + post (switched +12 from the ignition switch). The wire from the points should go to the coil - post. The tach wire is a black/purple wire (hard to see the purple), also on the coil - post.

The Pertronix is very likely dead.

You didn't list a condensor in your list of new ignition parts. The Pertonix doesn't need one, but points most certainly do. I'd replace your now burned up points, buy a condensor, as well, and expect to have to replace the coil, too.

[stuart]

starter.. yeah, yeah, I know it's speaker wire!

[stuart]

coil wiring when points started smoking-does this look right?

[lapuwali]

A photo of the coil wiring itself is not useful. Where do the black wires go? Where does that whitish wire go? Why are there two black wires connected to the + terminal?

It looks like your wiring has been seriously hacked, so don't expect a factory wiring diagram to help much. You're going to need to trace all of these wires down yourself to see where they connect.

[stuart]

On the starter, there SHOULD be a big fat wire from the battery + terminal to a screw terminal on the solenoid. This wire is usually red, but covered in black heatproof shielding. There should also be a medium sized yellow wire on a spade terminal (that's from the starter switch). Finally, there's a wire intermediate between those two (also red) that runs up to the alternator (B+ to alternator, just happens to go through the starter).

On the ignition wiring, there should be a black wire from the relay board to the coil + post (switched +12 from the ignition switch). The wire from the points should go to the coil - post. The tach wire is a black/purple wire (hard to see the purple), also on the coil - post.

The Pertronix is very likely dead.

You didn't list a condensor in your list of new ignition parts. The Pertonix doesn't need one, but points most certainly do. I'd replace your now burned up points, buy a condensor, as well, and expect to have to replace the coil, too.

The yellow, red, and the wire with the black sheath are all accounted for, but there was one other wire that was connected to the starter, and which it seems like no one else has heard of. Could this be unique to the 75 1.8?

forgot to list condensor, but I got one of those too.

In the picture, the green wire is coming from the points, then the tan-ish wire (also on the negative terminal) leads to the huge bundle of wires leading from the ECU to the air sensor. Also on the negative terminal is the purple-and-black tach wire.
Then, on the positive terminal there are two wires crimped to a single spade connector, which come from the driver's side relay panel. This is how I remember the old coil being wired (besides the green wire, anyway) but it sounds different from what you're describing. Maybe there's some extra wiring required for the pertronix? I'll look into it.

[lapuwali]

The Pertronix requires no extra wiring. It just has two wires, one that goes to coil +, the other goes to coil -.

I have no idea what that whitish wire would be, but I don't know the '75 well.

[brant]

Stuart,

I don't know the answer to your problems exactly either.
but want to wish you good luck.

its ironic.
I work in boulder and my grandmother lives in goodland
(I get there every couple of months)

regarding your wiring.
I think you have 2-3 seperate things going on.

I think what you need to do is trace all of the wires in question
ignore their color, but look where they start and stop.
if you can figure out where they begin, then you can use the factory 1.8 wiring diagram to see if things like the ignition is connected correctly.

I've often used a $3 ohm meter to test and verify continuity on wires (and in your case to know that for certain that one end of the wire is connecting to the other end)

especially on your ignition stuff you need to make certain that you have the correct wires plugged to the correct items.

I don't know 1.8's at all, so can't say whether that white-ish coil wire is supposed to be there or not. But If I were in your shoes I'd get out the 75 correct wiring diagram from haynes and make sure the right things were plugged to the right things... I've made myself lists to verify every wire before when I was having F.I. problems.

regarding your starter.
it was probably an unrelated problem
the cars are notorious for failed solinoids and hot start issues.
it could of been in the ignition switch too.

but its really seperate from the ignition wiring problem your having
and yes your pertronix is now fried if you left the key on.
so get new points and make sure everything is correct before you proceed.

I know these wiring issues are a nightmare.
but hang in there
you can beat this thing!

brant

[SGB]

I'm pretty sure that blue one is to the oil pressure idiot light switch. There is a sender on the bottom of the case.

[Dave_Darling]

That's the white wire that tells the L-jetronic EFI when the points open and close, so it knows when to inject fuel.

The blue wire is someone's add-on. Very likely it was done to rig up a starter bypass, similar to the one you have now. Get rid of it.

I think the red "???" wire in your starter picture should have a ring terminal on the end and should be hooked up to the same stud that the big fat black cable (also labeled "???") is. It looks, at least so far, like the red wire that goes from the alternator to the starter. The fat black cable goes straight to the battery (+) terminal.

How's the battery state of charge? If you don't have that red wire hooked up to the same place as the fat black cable, the battery will never get charged by the alternator.

--DD

[stuart]

Thanks guys!

I guess I've got some leads to check out, which is really encouraging.

Brant, do you know a guy named Chris Whalen? He drives a blue teener and used to have a VW Scirocco with a TDI that he installed...cool, cool car. Anyway, he's the previous owner of my car.

Well, back to the garage!

[brant]

ha..
yep..
I know Chris.

good to have you here Stuart!

brant

[John]

When you connected your wiring to your distributor, I believe that you may have burned something. There should never be any smoke there.

The all the points do is to provide an intermittant ground to the ignition coil to allow the ignition coil to store a charge. The condenser is used to prevent the ignition points from burning (arcing) prematurely when making and breaking.

The coil should have a black wire (+12v). This wire should be switched with the ignition switch to provide voltage only with the key in the "on" position.

I would start there. Make sure you have +12v at the coil with the key in the "on" position.

Then make sure that you have a ground at the coil when the points are closed.

The next step would be to verify if you have a spark. You may have a bad coil.

The starter circuit has been tampered with and you may also need a new solenoid or a rebuilt starter.....


good luck