Timing a /6 part 2, Going crazy! Doing things.....bad things.....shhhh Options

[Dr Evil]

Well working on Chef's car yesterday made me feel more confident to learn what the hell is wrong with my car. Or the shorter list, what is right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So I cut a hole in the fire wall. I did this after much mental deliberation and figured since I am going ot be goofing with my DIS eventually this was an acceptable move. Also, the ass who installed the moter (me) must have been in a hurry and didnt mark the timing marks on the pully. This was quickly rectified today and it was found that my previous attemp to mark the fan housing en vivo was actually off the mark.

Also, I have recently been goofing with the fuel mixture which was waaaayyyyyyy too rich before. (I'll make a list of questions at the end for all of you to ponder.)

So, on to the timing.

When I adjust the idle timing to 5 ATDC, hose attached, it idles fine now. BUT, when I disconnect the hose and rev it up to 6k RPM the timing does not advance smoothly and the marks are all over the place. Basically the timing is erratic and the car lacks power. I have even noticed the timing movement not advancing correctly, but going the wrong way instead. I am pretty sure this was withthe hose disconnected, but I have done this so manny times now that my head is spinning.
Using an adjustable timing light I set it to 35 BTDC and noticed that with the idle set stock the timing was not retarded enough. When I adjusted it it ran like crap. This was done when the marks were all over the palce. I tred it with the advance on the light set to 0 and go the same thing.


I think I am in need of another dizzy (which sucks because I am getting rid of the dizzy eventually).

Basically, I am looking for faults and conditions to watch out for and what to check. I am fried so I may need to re test and clarify later.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Take it out, take it apart, clean and lubricate it, reassemble it, and put it back in. In that order. The Cap'n

[lapuwali]

And if a good clean and lube doesn't fix the dizzy, then just do the EDIS swap now.

[DNHunt]

Maybe it's just wants the crankfire early. It sure makes rock solid timing.

Dave

[Dr Evil]

More info from me would be good about now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

What I have done regarding the dizzy is:
-removed
-lubed plates
-checked vacuum advance can
-lubed fly weights

I am thinking the shaft has too much play (like some).

Is it possible to take the whole thing apart? I fooled withthe fly weights via the access port. I have not completely disassembled it, but if it is possible I will.

As for crank fire, I am hopefully picking up an old laptop from Wilchek tomarrow that I will try to program my EDIS with. If it is successful then I may just have to move ahead. I am concerned as I did not want to EDIS my car until I had it running right OE. Kinda trying to keep the unknown variables at a minimum. Now I got to find/make some advance charts and vacuum charts. This is another reason I wanted it running OE first, so I could map these things out for programming.

[lapuwali]

There are charts around for the stock distributor advance curves. No need to map them yourself. That will only be a starting point, of course. One of the advantages of programmable ignition is you can make a curve that's very difficult to make with a simple mechanical advance setup.

[Dr Evil]

Ya, I have many charts that members have been so kind to post for me. I got to get hot on digesting and settig up a spread sheet. I am defiently gunshy. If I can get the stupid thing to program I will then have to find plugs to interface the Ford coil pack to the 911 engine. Any easy and cheap fixes? (I bet not)

What kind of funky curve would I wan t ot make? I am not getting this?

[lapuwali]

Plugs to interface? You mean plug wires? That's not an issue. You can get both ends new, and wire new, and make them up yourself.

As for funky curves, you have a real 3D map to program, rather than the pair of 2D curves a vacuum distributor will use (which gives you kind of 2.5D).

For example, you can give it lots of advance on light vacuum at typical cruising revs (usually helps with mileage), but take out a lot of that advance as soon as the vacuum drops, to prevent pinging if you stomp on it from cruise. With the 911 style vac advance, you can only pull the timing down to what the mechanical curve is, you can't pull it below that.

[Dr Evil]

James, I always appreciate the info that you post. It is clear that I need to learn some more about timing advance. I will post my chart when it is done and look for some input for what tweaks I can do to it.

So, you can get the ends new, eh. Where? That is good news. Maybe I will just scrap the dizzy if I can get this EDIS up.
Thanks

[lapuwali]

Someone on the Bird Board installed EDIS on their 911 and mentioned making new wires. Magnacore sold him the wire, and I think they sold him the 911 ends, too. Search there and see if you can find it. The EDIS ends are a Ford part, available anywhere Ford bits are sold. You might also try a guy called Boost Engineering.

linkie

He sells EDIS stuff super cheap. Lots of it is used, and I think most of his business is just trolling junkyards so you don't have to.

[Dr Evil]

I have a set of wires I can raid (had to repair them already so I know how they are constructed) and the whole set up form the EDIS so I may not need anything. This is great news (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was just searching for my advance curves and here are my new questions:

-Which curve should I use?
I have a 2.4-2.7 except carrera curve, a 77 S curve, and a 78 SC curve (the wiredest one). My engine has SC cams.

-Where can I find an advance curve with vacuum?
I have only mechanical advance curves and nothing with what the vacuum does.

[Dr Evil]

More info for ya on what advance curves I have, all are at atmospheric pressure (no hose attached):

For the 2.4 and 2.7 except Carrera:
RPM 500, 1200, 2000, 2400, 4000, 5000, 6000
Advance 5, 5, 20, 24, 28, 32, 35

For a 77 S:
RPM 500, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000
Advance 0, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17

For a 78 SC:
RPM 1000, 1200, 2400, 3000, 4000
Advance 5, 8, 8, 11, 11

For these I mainly only noted when the curves changed. I figure the computer will fill in the rest. Some of these curves seem short and have few data points.

The 2.7 is vastly different form the SC, shouldnt I be adjusting a curve to the SC?

My head hurts now.

[Dr Evil]

I am going to post a separate thread soliciting info on making a graph and where to get charts and such.