suspension mods, newb asks where to start Options

[bugsy0]

drove my brother's '74 2.0 the other day - his has stiffer springs and Koni shocks w/ Bridgstone 195/?? tires. That car felt so great compared w/ my stock '71 (cheap Cooper 165/?? tires). Of course my tail shifter could use a bushing/ball joint overhaul also.

I'd like to get the car to handle better. Where do I start? Not trying to build a race car...

[So.Cal.914]

I have a 72 I put 140 lb springs in back and a 19 mm sway bar. In front I put a

22mm sway. It's a narrow body with 205/55/15's and it handles real well,

Especially compaired to how it did handle.

[Rusty]

You took a first good step - finding out what you want your car to feel like rather than just throwing money at what everyone says is cool. Check the condition of your pieces first... you mentioned ball joints... check your tie-rods, too.

You didn't mention what you want to do with the car. Everyone has their own favorite setup, and you can put a LOT of money into this.

A setup that I think is fun, but not overly aggressive on the street:
- yellow Koni adjustables (frt pr- 360; rear pr-350 @ Paragon)
- 140lb springs (used - maybe 40 dollars)
- fresh balljoints (134 @ Paragon)
- Turbo tie-rod kit (165 @ Paragon)
- stock front torsion bars (you own them)
- and a front sway bar (free if you have one. 345, for a 19mm Welt @ Pelican).

The new stuff totals 1354, plus shipping. Some can be found used in the classifieds. Bargains do pop up.

Suspension bushings are a whole 'nuther can of worms. Lots of opinions, and you can spend big bucks there.

Hope this helps,
Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Turn your car into something great by just adding tires.
May I suggest Azenis or Hankook Ventus RS-2 in a 205/50-15
great construction cheap and grip for days.

Barry drove my car for about 25 miles on the freeway. I drove his.

He was amazed at how sure footed and tight the car felt. Tires do this.

His BFG Comp T/A were so wishy-washy I exercised extreme care driving his car. Wiggle the wheel and nothing happens. Don't do that to my car I said it will put you in the next lane or the ditch.

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Turn your car into something great by just adding tires.

People (myself included) long forget the most important piece of the suspension. Tires.

I would then go piece by piece in the following order.

Shocks (Koni or Bilstein)
Sway Bars (stock or mild for street use)
Springs? Maybe the rear but again, for street, keep the fronts for sure. Possibly even the rears if you can find a rear bar. If not 140's

Joe is spot on. You'll be amazed at what a new tire can do... go from there.

[Bleyseng]

Yep, good tires first after you install new balljoints, tie rods (turbos)and a 4 wheel alignment so they dont wear out funny.

Then Konis

front Sway bar and rear 140lbs springs

[Eric_Shea]

Yup... what Geoff said. Forgot to check the ball joints/tie rods first.

[Root_Werks]

Yeah, what those guys said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[bugsy0]

You dudes are always willing to help - thanks! I'll start w/ tires (suggestions?) and then think about joints, springs and shocks. Definitely let you all hear from me as I go along. Took the car up a twisty canyon road this morning :-D guess I'm easy to please - driving a totally stock original 1.7 w/ very tired shift linkage. Can't wait to start feeling those incremental improvements.

[bugsy0]

Re. upgrading my tires - I'm looking for reasonable mileage (~15000 +) and would like them sticky on dry asphalt. Rain and wet performance is less critical - I don't drive the car in bad weather if I can avoid it. Also, can I fit 195s on my stock Pedrinis?

[Eric_Shea]

Tire are tough to recommend...

Yok's, Hankooks??

[bugsy0]

I'll just start reading what I can find on tires - those names aren't even familiar. Is there terminology or any specific way to say "sticky" vs. "hard" vs. "stiff sidewall or little action that causes the tire to roll side to side on the wheel? seems like a guy could go broke in a hurry trying everything out. I'll bet I can get this little car to corner like crazy though... Now to figure out a way to get the brakes working better...

[Dave_Darling]

A quick look at the Tire Rack website shows five tires in the Ultra High Performance (Summer and All-Season, combined) in each of two sizes that are easily 914-compatible: 195/60-15 and 195/65-15. The Yokohama AVS dB S2 (195/65) is a tire that I would like to try as a street tire sometime; while I have tried the Yoko ES100 and Dunlop SP Sport 01 A tires (both available in 195/60) on other cars than 914s and liked them both.

The 195/65s will be close to the overall diameter of the original tires, which preserves the original gearing and speedo/odometer readings. The 195/60s will have a smaller overall diameter, which will give you slightly lower gearing and slightly more optomistic speedo and odo readings. It will also be a little harsher road-feel, but will likely stick a touch better.

I think those tires fit your criteria reasonably. I really like my Falken Azenis tires (thanks again, Grant!!) for dry-weather grip, but they are not 15K mile tires by any stretch.

"Sticky" or "soft-compound" or "R-compound" tires will not last anywhere near as long as you say you want. The grip is astonishing, but they aren't exactly very streetable. Most are not so great if they encounter water, either. I recommend staying with hard-compound street tires.

--DD

[Eric_Shea]

Now to figure out a way to get the brakes working better...

Please read the club FAQ on brakes. You don't need to waste good tire and shock money on elaborate braking systems. There are some serious-ass brakes currently bolted on to your car.

[Joe Ricard]

Hankook Ventus RS-2 End of story.
These are my street tires. I kept them on for a night Autocross in the rain. (yea I'm a sickFuck) I was pulling 1.01 lateral G's all night long in Very wet standing water.

I also used them for 8 fun runs this past saturday Tremendous grip
75 bucks a piece How can you go wrong. Pretty quiet and smooth on the road tread wear is advertised as 200.

Brakes Porterfield R4S (Period) on stock calipers. I an generate .89 G's deceleration street tires in the wet. meaning they are easy to modulate and can really stop. With slicks in the dry you have to put your eye balls back in the holes.

[Eric_Shea]

With slicks in the dry you have to put your eye balls back in the holes

Well there ya go... what more could you ask for? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

Joe...

One word - Pink

One link - Link to the Pink

[Joe Ricard]

Joe...

One word - Pink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/owned.gif)

Well not sure what you mean Pink. as in Drag race for Pinks?

No but maybe autocross for Pinks. Be careful I'm a pretty good negotiator. and I can sand bag with the best of them.
You catch the replay last night with the broke 924?
that guy who stepped up in the Camaro was definately a ringer. Stone cold sand bag. Last run he let the cat out the bag catching the van from 10 lengths by half track and leading by 20 lengths.

How about Topeka next year? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

I was inviting you to come drink (not testosterone shakes BTW) with us at the Pink Shirt Classic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Oh. Well OK. Uh Damn that's far. You know how hot it is out there?
Car is really not comfy after about 8 hours in the Sparco.
OK enough lame excuses.
Pretty much becoming poor with my AX exploits.