930 motor into 914, How to? Options

[team ftb]

Here's the question. Has anybody done this and what does it involve? A buddy owes me huge and he has a complete turnkey 930 motor to settle the debt. I have a 914 complete w/flares, suspension and brakes to handle this beast. I just know it will be a pain and would like some input and guidance.

The car will not be a daily driver. Sunday fun and track duty only. So I can cut the trunk and lid anyway needed for access, headers, exhaust, etc.

Issues I'm thinking about:

Exhaust (probably cut off at headers and mounted backwards to its current configuration. The rest custom made.

Tranny: It should be able to be rebuilt (ottos) it to take the heat as long as I warm it up, do not abuse it, install pump and coolers etc.

Intercooler mount: How about proper airflow to it?

CV's and Axles: How much can they take?


Any insights, advice, wisdom, cajoling etc. is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[krk]

Sounds like a fun project!

I recall seeing (pictures or reading, not in person) perhaps 2 or 3 turbo'd 914/6's.

One didn't use an intercooler, and I have the magazine article kicking around here -- it has photos of the exhaust routing, etc. If you like, I can scan it and post it here.

One mounted the intercooler almost in the middle of the rear trunk lid. There was no data offered on how effective it was (it would have been nice if they had measured inlet/outlet temps/etc and compared it to the 911 data/etc.)

I'd also guess that the v8 guys can offer what worked/didn't work for handling larger horsepower.

kim.

[team ftb]

The exhaust is actually one of the most difficult things in this project. If you could scan and post pics that would give me a good head start. Thank you, much appreciated

Ideally it would be nice if I could just have the intercooler mounted in the stock position. Cut the decklid and trunk out, swing the motor 180 degrees and drop in. Sounds a lot easier than I'm sure it would be. Hmmmmm.

If anybody has links, sights etc that has any info on this idea it would be appreciated. Thanks again.

[krk]

I shall fire it up this evening.

kim.

[Joe Bob]

Try keeping a trans in it.....

[Aaron Cox]

run a 915 or beefier trans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[Hawktel]

Does he owe you a 930 tranny also? If so, your in luck!.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[team ftb]

Question regarding a trans if I may...POC club racers run the 901 gearbox built w/a better mainshaft behind 3.2's and 3.6 putting out just under 260-300hp. That is one option. The other is I can have the 930 3 speed machined and flip the R&P. Prey tell does anyone know who does this on the 930 box and how much it costs?

[Hawktel]

You'd want to check with Renegade I think. They do major trans work to keep them sported up to that HP/Torque off the SBC's.

[Aaron Cox]

wow...only a 3 speed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[krk]

Question regarding a trans if I may...POC club racers run the 901 gearbox built w/a better mainshaft behind 3.2's and 3.6 putting out just under 260-300hp. That is one option. The other is I can have the 930 3 speed machined and flip the R&P. Prey tell does anyone know who does this on the 930 box and how much it costs?

It's prolly worth it to search the archives here. I'm sure I saw a thread from Brad on the machining he does to use a 930 tranny in a 914.

The scanning worked just fine -- all the images are crisp, clear and over 6M each.

On the up side, I found two articles, one that includes an intercooler. I'll get this sorted soon.....

kim.

[team ftb]

Thanks for the efforts Kim on the scanning. Feel free to PM me with them if it is easier. I attempted an archive scan and could not come up with anything searching for 930 transmission or 915, searching by any date feature. Any Ideas what I'm doing incorrectly. Since I'm new here maybe I am searching incorrectly.

Sorry for the typo, the tranny is obviously the 4 speed not 3 speed.

[Brad Roberts]

A 901 wont handle it. Your Turbo engine will put out more torque than any of the engines you listed... and dont let JohnW "Otto" talk you into one of his 6k dollar still worthless 901's. I can tell you already have spoken to him about it... because he is the ONLY shop owner in the world who thinks 914 owners will "warm their transmission up" properly. Bullshit. Wont happen..never happens. He will keep sticking you for tranny builds blaming you for not warming it up. Ask me how I know.

Your biggest concern with this project is:

1.tranny
2.exhaust
3.oiling/coolers
4.turbo mounting for oil drain back

No.4 Porsche mounted the stock turbo above the bottom of the block for oil drain back from the turbo bearings. You must do this unless you plan on a electric pump of some sort.

The pics we have show how Richard Clewitt installed his turbo. He mounted it way back near the rear valance and ran almost stock style 9146 headers. I *think* he ran a Garret ball bearing turbo for better response (length of intercooler pipe becomes pretty long at that point)

Somebody here has a ton of pics from Richards car and the German Autofest.

Oh.. welcome to the BBS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)


B

[campbellcj]

What specifically is the "weak link" on the 901 that is different on the 915, and likewise between the 915 and 930? Is it the R&P? The rigidity of the case itself?

It seems like if somebody like Paul Guard or the Wevo folks applied modern engineering and metallurgy to the problem, they could increase the reliability margin by quite a bit.

FTB -- one BIG difference between your proposed car and the race cars with 901's is that they are not usually subjected to brutal standing starts, or even nearly as many "gentle" starts compared to a car that is street driven. These cars that are pushing 200-400HP thru 901 boxes only roll off from a standing start a handful of times a month and spend most of their life in 3rd thru 5th gear...and are sometimes running trans coolers as well. And the the more extreme cars are regularly "freshened" too, they are not trying to go for a decade between teardowns.

The torque curve is the other huge difference. A turbo car might make monster torque from 2K rpm's (my chipped S4 makes probably 300ft-lbs from 1800 rpm's on up) while a high strung NA car might not come on hard until 5K rpms or higher. In that respect the advice to check with Renegade is probably a great idea, since a big turbo motor has more in common with a V8 in terms of the torque curve and overall output.

[Brad Roberts]

Renegade doesnt build tranny's.

I feel the R+P is the weak link along with the input shaft.

WEVO and Guard both want nothing to do with the 901 (I asked why).. "we have 915's" why go with a VW based tranny case (901) is along the lines with what both of them answered me with.

Chris really nailed what I was trying to say about the torque by giving you examples of how 901's are used in racing.


B

[team ftb]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the responses. I luckily have the opportunity to utilize the 4 speed, any contact info on the people that perform this surgery, ballpark costs, experiences, etc. Brad is right that Renegade do not do trannies. As with any tranny I run on the track it will be built w/ pumps and coolers. thanks for the heads up though.

Brad thanks for the beta on the turbo location. I remember seeing a 914 w/930 motor at Willow Springs w/the POC about 2 years ago but did not look at the exhaust thoroughly enough as my project idea had not been hatched. I'm sure It will have to be a custom job. Seeing an example would of course help me greatly. I;m hoping there is ample room for the turbo next to the tranny in the rear since I will be hacking most of the trunk out.

Coolers are fairly simple and I've a few laying about. I'm thinking two fender mounted carerra coolers w/Fans in the front fenders and a large mocal in the nose should keep temps reasonable if I keep stock boost levels.

Is there a place to view Richards Clewitts photos?

Any other things that I should be considering on getting the motor up and running in the 914? Thanks.

[campbellcj]

I posted one photo of Richard's car on the Pelican board (same thread topic). He is local, in the SF Vallley I think, and might be willing to chat about turbo 914 stuff. Or better yet find out when he will be at the track next, and then you can come out and take pics and chat in person.

There is at least one other 930-engined POC car but I do not know anything about the car or the owner. I am pretty sure that one is running a flipped 930 trans though.

[Brad Roberts]

Somewhere on the BBS (again) we have pics of the twin turbo IMSA bodied 914 that won the Grassroots challenge last year. He runs PCA club racing also.

I think you have a great idea. I know what needs to be done but have never carried out the entire swap.

The biggest headache with the 930 box is the shift linkage. Right now you are limited to a cable setup or a "Monkey motion" solid linkage setup. Neither are "easy" to install or setup. I have asked WEVO to work on a shift linkage setup similar to what they sell for the 915. With enough demand Hayden might consider the project for next year.

B

[krk]

These articles are at least entertaining.

The first is two pages, from VW&Porsche, June 1980. (hard to imagine that the 914's had only been out of production for 4 years at this point)

[krk]

page 2.