2.0 block and 912E heads, Thinking about "just" a top-end rebuild and changing pistons Options

[Carlitos Way]

I'm not dead-set on this, but I'm thinking this will buy me some time so I can pull the other engine from the car and work on really building that one up.

Here is what I'm seeing.

The engine I picked up at the swap meet seems to have been "recently refreshed"... at least the heads. I can see where the name "Bruce" was printed with permanent market on the outer surface that faces the block.

I took off one of the heads (the one that had the rocker arm assembly loose) and saw that the cylinders, especially the right rear (forgot cylinder number) cylinder have some scouring and lines going up and down.

I took out my handy-dandy micro-gage and confirmed that I have 94 mm pistons. I was initially thinking about doing a complete rebuild, but I'm very tempted to save some money at this time and just get this one "closer to right" rather than building the monster I was thinking about.

I've seen West Coast Core is selling 96 mm pistons and cylinders sets on e-bay. I am not sure if that's the best way to go, but they sure have an "affordable" price point.

Apart from this, I'm guessing a change to a more "beefed up" oil pump and a deep sump should be a good idea. Engine is already out, and I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to have more oil flowing through.

I'm thinking about having the heads checked and cleaned, and perhaps welded for the exhaust breathers.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[Al Meredith]

Do you have any idea if the cam is stock ????

[Carlitos Way]

Do you have any idea if the cam is stock ????

The cam is stock as far as I know. I'm not looking for a motor to last a lifetime, just to last me for a long enough time to get by, while I really take apart and rebuild the other engine I have in the car right now.

The idea is at that point I'll rebuild a 2.3 or thereabouts, with a properly matched cam.

For now, I just have an engine that leaks REALLY bad (Howard will attest to this) and I've found a "quick" solution to get me by for a few weeks/months, until I can really have a complete engine rebuilt from scratch, with all the "right" upgrades and modifications.

[Krieger]

I had a CA 912E model. Be very careful with these heads. Check them very thoroughly. but I'm not sure if that is enough. My E came equiped with thermal reactors as part of the emissions system. Their job was to cook the crap out of the exhaust gasses. Well they did and also screwed up the nature of the metal. After these heads were properly rebuilt by a very reputable shop that does Type 4 (FAT Performance). I had to pull the heads to fix 2 dropped seats. Different head at diff times. Then about every four months one of the rocker arm hold down studs would pull out of the head, with what was left of the aluminum threads. 2-3 for each head. I got really good at putting in tim serts. If I could do it again I would have shit canned the haeds and never used them. This car was driven not very aggressively by my wife. She was less than enthusiastic.

[Carlitos Way]

That's great feedback. Interestingly enough, one of the rocker arms didn't have any nuts holding it down. I do have another "newly rebuilt head" I purchased from a shop going out of business, in case one of these drops a seat as well. I'm also hoping that by welding the thermal reactor ports the likelyhood of the head cracking will be greatly reduced.

[Jake Raby]

Do some searches on your friends over at West Coast core.. Google will work, and the Samba..

Stop price shopping right now- if you do that you'll end up with exactly what you pay for in the Type 4 world..

Krieger speaks volmes about used, 30 year old TIV heads, thats why we don't rebuild them- we start with brand new castings.. Listen to our radio shows, especially the most recent part one of a two part series on cylinder heads with Len Hoffman.

The rule is that if staying with the stock cam then keep the bore sizes and CR stock, added displacements and other mods will just build heat as the stock cam is horrible- no, its worse than horrible!

BTW- Krieger, your wife driving the car too conservatively and using 5th gear too early was probably the source of the tossed seats and head issues, 5th gear bakes the heads in a 914 application unless you are running 70+ MPH at all times, keep that engine spinning 3,500 RPM all the time and it'll live forever- lug it and pay the price..

[Krieger]

Those extra holes in the head are for air injection. You can buy plugs for this. The E and 75/76 CA cars had an extra air pump driven off the front of the motor as another emissions control. Thermal reactors bolted directly to the exhaust port. It looks like a long can, about 3" in diameter by 10" long with two tubes that went to the exhaust port. Heat exchangers bolted to these then the muffler.

[Krieger]

Sorry to hijack, but thanks Jake I never considred her lugging the motor but she probably did. Once I did have all everything buttoned up it was driven as a daily driver for 6 years.

[Jake Raby]

Nothing is worse than lugging..

Using 5th Gear at less than 75 MPH is the source for most head related issues in 914 applications, anyone with a CHT gauge can see this plain as day, especially when you hit a hill!

[jimkelly]

Jake - so driving my car on the street I should try to keep rpm at 3500 ??

I think I try to keep rpm around 3000 - usually if I am getting a steady rpm of 3500 I shift upward ??

Jim

--

[Cap'n Krusty]

"I've seen West Coast Core is selling 96 mm pistons and cylinders sets on e-bay. I am not sure if that's the best way to go, but they sure have an "affordable" price point."

When you think of "affordable", make sure you can afford to do the job twice, the second time with good parts. The Cap'n

[TonyBray]

That engine came from 912E #1072. The paperwork I got with the car showed that engine had been rebuilt around 100k miles by Black Forest of San Diego. All parts on the invoice were OEM stock parts. The car showed 296k miles on it when I bought it. The car had the stock 912E injection along with the smog equipment but DID NOT have thermal reactors since the original rebuilld. So 100k miles WITH reactors, 196k WITHOUT them. Paints a pretty picture doesn't it? The engine was not running when I got the car, the EFI was in bits where the last owner tried to fix his own L-jet.

The fan shroud (which on a 912E has the engine number) that I sold with that engine is NOT from the came car. The original shroud with the original engine number for #1072 is in #1072.

So Carlos... If you choose to do just a top-end, you *might* get a few more miles out of it. I just don't recommend it on a bottom end with a minimum of 196k miles on it.

P.S. You need to call me ')

--Tony
67 912 2.0 Type 4
81 924 Turbo
94 968 Cabriolet
http://gumby912.servebeer.com

[Joe Ricard]

Nothing is worse than lugging..

Using 5th Gear at less than 75 MPH is the source for most head related issues in 914 applications, anyone with a CHT gauge can see this plain as day, especially when you hit a hill!

OK I guess I'm good.

[Carlitos Way]

That engine came from 912E #1072. The paperwork I got with the car showed that engine had been rebuilt around 100k miles by Black Forest of San Diego. All parts on the invoice were OEM stock parts. The car showed 296k miles on it when I bought it. The car had the stock 912E injection along with the smog equipment but DID NOT have thermal reactors since the original rebuilld. So 100k miles WITH reactors, 196k WITHOUT them. Paints a pretty picture doesn't it? The engine was not running when I got the car, the EFI was in bits where the last owner tried to fix his own L-jet.

The fan shroud (which on a 912E has the engine number) that I sold with that engine is NOT from the came car. The original shroud with the original engine number for #1072 is in #1072.

So Carlos... If you choose to do just a top-end, you *might* get a few more miles out of it. I just don't recommend it on a bottom end with a minimum of 196k miles on it.

P.S. You need to call me ')

--Tony
67 912 2.0 Type 4
81 924 Turbo
94 968 Cabriolet
http://gumby912.servebeer.com

Thanks for the "extra history" on the motor. I left you an e-mail earlier today. Let me know if you need anything else.