full flow systems, plumming questions Options

[41ghost]

on a 914 , putting a full flow oil system on , what is a good way to rought your oil lines if you are going to place the oil cooler and fan next to the tranny on the passenger side, will have a tangerine header system installed also.

[Cap'n Krusty]

You do understand that the T4 motor is already a "full flow" oil system? If you're gonna add a cooler, you need to purchase a remote filter (or cooler) sandwich adapter, one with a built in thermostat. You'll need some "pushlockz" fittings, a good cooler, and the hose made to work with those fittings. The ever popular ss braided wrapped hose is prone to leaks at the fittings, but few seem to care until it begins to make a mess. That's when the "cool factor" begins to seem less important. You want to route the hoses as far from heat sources as possible. Personally, I think mounting where you plan is a waste of time and money. The air there is stagnant, and hot, and cooling will be severely impacted.

[41ghost]

You do understand that the T4 motor is already a "full flow" oil system? If you're gonna add a cooler, you need to purchase a remote filter (or cooler) sandwich adapter, one with a built in thermostat. You'll need some "pushlockz" fittings, a good cooler, and the hose made to work with those fittings. The ever popular ss braided wrapped hose is prone to leaks at the fittings, but few seem to care until it begins to make a mess. That's when the "cool factor" begins to seem less important. You want to route the hoses as far from heat sources as possible. Personally, I think mounting where you plan is a waste of time and money. The air there is stagnant, and hot, and cooling will be severely impacted.

i do have the cooler with fan , oil filter adapter, all the plumming and a auto. fan switch, what is wrong with the air there. where else would it go without going to the front of the car.

[Jake Raby]

Capn,
Actually the stock oil system is not full flow..

The stock system depends on the pressure relief to moderate the oil through the oil cooler and at pressure above 45 PSI a portion of oil is bypassed around the cooler.

The stock oil filter housing is also not full flow as it depends on it's on pressure relief system that is installed in the oil filter housing/adaptor...

A true full flow system like we have perfected and use on every engine we build will cool ALL the oil and filter ALL the oil and is not dependant upon the factory pressure relief system at all to dictate the volume of oil that will be filtered or cooled.

In a crude test we did way back in 1998 we were able to measure a volume increase with this arrangement of over 25% when compared to the same engine with a full stock system. The removal of the 45 and 90 degree bends within the stock system is a huge benefit, especially in keeping bearings alive when open clearances are used.

I have an article on full flow oiling ready to release on my forum in the next 10 days or so... As far as the cooler mounting:
I have mounted oil coolers in 914s in this location with great luck and engines up to 200HP. The key to making this work well is using an efficient oil cooler like the Setrab which is superior in this location.

I like to keep the cooler close to the engine, if that means you need a more efficient oil coooler to position in that area you'll be much better off than running 20' of oil line to the front of the car and back to the engine.

I ran the cooler in my personal 914 in this location with 5 different test engines without any issues, even in extreme heat for long periods of time and on the track.
No disrespect meant to the Capn' in this post- he probably has not familiarized himself with the way we do the full flow system because he hasn't needed to. The stock system works well for most people, but we push the envelope all the time and the oil system is constatntly being manipulated for better results to support the power and revs our engines make.

[914werke]

Hey gents I wanted to go thru & replace some of my worn out seals. 6 years ago when I restored my 73 2.0 I bought a package of seals. It came with most the seals for the car. Not the coveted targa/windshield seal. Although I ordered 2 of those when I did my car by accident. Sold my extra to a guy for $120 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . Anyway I really just need a few around my door windows. So please shoot me a few links for places. Thanks

not to toot our own horn but since no one has replied we have all of them except the windshield top seal!

Jake do you offer parts or kits to convert a particular motor to "full flow"?
(IE the cover for a type 1 pump)

[41ghost]

i understand all that and i am going to put it where you say jake, but i was looking and am concerned where to put the hoses, do not want to get it hot [ the hose i mean] and it does not look like it would be a good place to go buy the valve covers, nay need to adjust them. what about routing them up through the right side engine tin and back through the rear tin , strait to the cooler.

oh ya , can't wait to see what goes with the engine race thing. go till ya blow.

[Joe Ricard]

Jake do you offer parts or kits to convert a particular motor to "full flow"?
(IE the cover for a type 1 pump)
[/quote]
You need more than just the pump filter. you will need to at least tap into one of the plugs at the front of the motor.

[41ghost]

what about butting it under the engine lid . i have seen one like this, and it would get good clean air. if someone has done this let me know how they liked it.

[Jake Raby]

Hey gents I wanted to go thru & replace some of my worn out seals. 6 years ago when I restored my 73 2.0 I bought a package of seals. It came with most the seals for the car. Not the coveted targa/windshield seal. Although I ordered 2 of those when I did my car by accident. Sold my extra to a guy for $120 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . Anyway I really just need a few around my door windows. So please shoot me a few links for places. Thanks

not to toot our own horn but since no one has replied we have all of them except the windshield top seal!

Jake do you offer parts or kits to convert a particular motor to "full flow"?
(IE the cover for a type 1 pump)

Yes, we sell every part individually as welll as complete kits with all the parts ready for install.

As for routing:

It is rather easy to package the hoses so that heat won't interfere with them by using adel clamps to pull the hoses up away from the heater boxes and etc. The key is to use the insulating sleeves offered by Aeroquip to isolate the hoses from heat transfer. When I worked with jet engine we used these same sleeves over lube lines and hydraulic lines where they passed by the engines, those engines operated at around 1200F+ especially near the exhaust flanges..

I have literally laid oil lines sheathed with the aeroquip insulation right on headers and didn't see temp elevations- thats how good it is..

[41ghost]

wow , where is this product availlably? sounds great

[Jake Raby]

KEEP THE OIL COOLER OUT OF THE ENGINE BAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Placing the cooler under the engine lid blocks fresh air from entering the engine bay for the cooling fan to disperse- BAD!

It also may cool the oil, BUT it radiates the heat from the oil cooler into the engine bay and that elevates the fan inlet temps and that is a guaranteed way to raise head temps...

So giving up head temps for reduced oil temps isn't smart, especially when head temps have much more negative impact on the engine than elevated oil temps.the other aspect of increased engine bay temps is reduced power output from the engine- not many people realize the fact that a 10F elevation in carb/engine inlet temp will net a minimum of a 4HP performance loss- engines like cool air!

keep ALL heat sources out of the engine bay!!!! Look at any new car, you'll see that the engine air intake is right up front, just above the bumper so the engine does not rob dirty hot air from the engine bay- imagine that.

[41ghost]

ko, but where do you get that hose isolator ?

[41ghost]

found that hose insulator , you do mean the silver one , right

[Elliot Cannon]

found that hose insulator , you do mean the silver one , right

Lots of tuner shops carry hose insulator sleeves. I got mine at Vision Motor Sprots here in So. Cal.

PS It wasn't cheap. At least not there.