 Starter is dying...replace w/ 911 unit?, $100 more than a teener unit! |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
  May 31 2007, 11:17 AM
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#1
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com  Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None  |
Starter works fine when cold. After a some driving, to where the starter gets heat soak, it will crank the engine VERY slowly as if the battery is very low on charge. Acts the same exact way while jump starting. But if I let the car cool down for awhile then it will crank like normal. I even had AAA come out and check the battery and charging system with their uber-cool, $600 hand-held analyzer and everything checked out 100%. So I know my battery (Optima) is in tip-top shape and my alternator is just as good.
I've read the hot-start relay threads and understand them. It's a band-aide for a failing starter as well as a safe-guard for the ignition switch. I may do it, I may not. Not sure. But I do know I need a starter. So, GPR has rebuilt Bosch units for the 911 @ $219 and 914 @ $112. Money is tight for me but I'd rather pay once than twice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I want to understand WHY the 911 starter is the prefered unit for replacement. I know it has more cranking power but is it at the same voltage/amperage draw as a 914 unit or more? Does the extra power spin the flywheel faster, resulting in a faster start? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
May 31 2007, 11:20 AM
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#2
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,205 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
i got a aftermarket high-torque starter and never looked back.
better than the stock unit and better than the 911 unit ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Ferg |
May 31 2007, 11:21 AM
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#3
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,948 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 116 Region Association: None 
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
May 31 2007, 11:22 AM
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#4
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
Ok, but you're not telling me WHY a higher torque starter is better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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| pin31 |
May 31 2007, 11:26 AM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Newport, Rhode Island Member No.: 7,492 Region Association: North East States |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
smaller, lighter, more torque (more power to spin the flywheel), quicker starts search for IMI Hi-torque #101. prices vary quite a bit. |
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| VaccaRabite |
May 31 2007, 11:29 AM
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#6
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,728 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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I have one of the hi torque starters as well, but its not in the car yet. But, neither is the engine.
zach |
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| SirAndy |
May 31 2007, 12:01 PM
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#7
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,205 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ May 31 2007, 09:22 AM)  Ok, but you're not telling me WHY a higher torque starter is better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) uhm, more torque? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy |
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| Ferg |
May 31 2007, 12:17 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,948 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 116 Region Association: None
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I have never heard of anyone having a hot start issue with a high torque starter. I can't say the same for rebuilt or new OEM starters
Ferg |
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| McMark |
May 31 2007, 12:21 PM
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#9
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
The IMI starter is cheaper and BRAND NEW. The Bosch starters are more expensive and rebuilt. Starter technology ain't that grand. If you don't have a high compression motor, you can use almost anything. So there is no huge technical reason to use a high-torque or 911 starter. In this case it's a matter of economics, and IMHO, brand new beats rebuilt every time.
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| VaccaRabite |
May 31 2007, 01:26 PM
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#10
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,728 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
All the above. Also, the new Hi torque starters are quite a bit lighter then the stock ones too. Zach |
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| Grimstead |
May 31 2007, 02:48 PM
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#11
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Cheaky Monkey Group: Members Posts: 835 Joined: 20-March 05 From: Corona, Ca Member No.: 3,789 Region Association: Southern California |
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| Trevorg7 |
May 31 2007, 03:15 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,242 Joined: 7-December 04 From: Highland Village, TX Member No.: 3,241 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Ferg @ May 31 2007, 11:17 AM) I have never heard of anyone having a hot start issue with a high torque starter. I can't say the same for rebuilt or new OEM starters Ferg This happened to me once last year. 100+ degrees, 60 minutes at freeway speed, shut it down and it would not start for 40 mins. We'll see this summer. The starter below is what I bought and it was 5 months old when it happened. QUOTE(Grimstead @ May 31 2007, 01:48 PM) This has been a good unit other than the hot start noted above. T |
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| Rand |
May 31 2007, 03:42 PM
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#13
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Good unit.
"Hot start" issues are another matter... most likely voltage loss over dirty wiring. Starters get blamed for this too often. |
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| McMark |
May 31 2007, 04:55 PM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) A solid ground strap, and good battery cables & connections are necessary as well. Far too many original positive battery cables out there if you ask me.
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| ConeDodger |
May 31 2007, 05:29 PM
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#15
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 24,028 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(McMark @ May 31 2007, 03:55 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) A solid ground strap, and good battery cables & connections are necessary as well. Far too many original positive battery cables out there if you ask me. Mark!!! Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Pat Garvey may be lurking!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sorry Pat! |
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| scotty b |
May 31 2007, 06:59 PM
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#16
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
I asked this once before when this subject came up and never got a response so I'll try again. Is the 944 strarter not the same or equivalent of a "high torque" starter? Or am I remembering an article I never read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Which is entirely possible........
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| PinetreePorsche |
May 31 2007, 07:10 PM
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 235 Joined: 14-November 05 From: Falls Church, VA Member No.: 5,124 |
QUOTE(scotty b @ May 31 2007, 05:59 PM) I asked this once before when this subject came up and never got a response so I'll try again. Is the 944 strarter not the same or equivalent of a "high torque" starter? Or am I remembering an article I never read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Which is entirely possible........ Scotty -- Glasd to have a neighbor in the fray, and a 944 question come up. My "new" '90 S2 944 has a v e r ..y slow starter. Was wondering if a 911-914 mini, high torque would go in the 944. Sounds like that's your hint. Anything I need to know? Thanks |
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| scotty b |
May 31 2007, 07:16 PM
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#18
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
Chris if your 944's starter is slow you have another issue. Check your grounds, and battery. They don't spin excessivly fast but 944's do have good starters, that is why I believe I think remembering possibly seeing an article in some magazine at some time in my infintessimile life about 944 starters being great on 911 and 914's .....maybe....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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| McMark |
May 31 2007, 08:35 PM
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#19
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Scotty, I'm guessing there was no response because no one knows for sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Have you seen them side by side to see if there are obvious differences? Have you searched the Pelican 911 forum to see if anyone has mentioned it there? Is the 944 starter better/cheaper/stronger than the hi-torque mini starter?
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| 914Sixer |
May 31 2007, 09:42 PM
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#20
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,122 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region
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The stock starter is .8 hp. The 911 Bosch starter is 1.5 hp. Almost double. I do not know the hp of the hi-performance starter. I have never heard of a hot start problem with a 911 starter after 72 when they went to the larger starter.
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