Alex - I'll take 914 6 ring gear damage for $1000, "what do High Torque starters do" Options

[BKLA]

Unfortunately, "BluByU" sits most of the time at the CAMP, waiting to be driven. Last month, my son and I enjoyed a drive that took us out to the Portland historic races. We enjoyed the day and the track and left around 3:00 in order to make it back to my other son's soccer tournament. The six started and ran normally both two and from the race. Parked it at home and drove with the family to the game.

After family duties, when to start the six and....zzzzzzKKKK - no engagement. put the car in gear and rocked it back and forth.

Tried again. This time engagement but loud clunk each rotation. ( the starter was relatively new so I thought maybe it was loose.) Drove up to the CAMP and parked it. Climbed under to see if the starter was "loose" - nope. Put the car cover on it and suspected a broken tooth on the ring gear.

Called my trusty local independent Porsche mechanic and asked. Tried starting again same loud clunk - figured that it must have broken a couple of teeth. Anyway, had him check it and sure enough - broke 5 teeth in a row.

Now here's the rub - He installed a new flywheel and a new starter (Bosch). THe six now starts sooo much quieter and faster than it ever did with the "high Torque" one. He told me that the high torque starters work great on high compression engines, but that he recommends the bosch starters for anything stock as they don't damage the ring gear.

Now, the flywheel looks great and I understand that it can be machined and have a new ring gear welded on. (I saved it as well as the relatively new starter.) I have seen a number of flywheels with removable or replaceable ring gears and have been considering one for the new race 2.7 I have for "other" 914.

Would it be worth it to have it machined for a replaceable ring gear as well as lightened and balanced? I would keep it as a back up for my 2.7 race motor -or- use it on the race motor. Waddya think?

[BKLA]

ring gear

[BKLA]

starter

[ConeDodger]

McMark says that they engage too deep. He would probably say it himself but he is in the witness protection program for a few days... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think he says that you should space them with washers when you mount them.

[propricer]

Was that the hi-torque starter that you buy on ebay for $119 ???

[Dr Evil]

That looks a little bit different than the one I bought on ebay for $119.

[BKLA]

the PO installed the starter, and I'm sure he didn't know about the shims. (and I have no idea if it is the same that you can buy on ebay?!?)

I have heard from other members about the shim issue. (Tilton supposedly provides instructions and shims along with it's Hi Torque starters.)

It sounds like this is a common occurrence with the hi torque starters. I don't think that shimming it with washers is the way to go. does anyone make shims for these starters? (could be laser and CAD time - Engman? Calling Dr. Engman...)

[fiid]

Ooooh. Interesting. I have one of those IMI jobs. I don't remember putting a spacer on it either :|

[Dr Evil]

We need to settle this once and for all but getting a stock one, and the IMI one and powering the solinoid to see how far each projects. Then we will also have a measure for he space needed to use and can inform the vendor so he can start telling people.

[IronHillRestorations]

I've seen the same thing. They don't seem to last as long as the Bosch starters either. I think those starters are more a liability than an asset.

So you get one for half the price of a 911 starter, it doesn't last as long, and it might eat your flywheel. I don't know of anyone having the same problem with a stock 911 starter.

Four cylinder flywheels aren't as expensive, but how many times do you change that part before it just isn't fun anymore?

Then lets add freight, plus freight on a flywheel.

The weight and dollar savings is not worth the gamble, to me anyway.

[BKLA]

The new bosch starter sounds much quieter and cranks much quicker. I was amazed at the difference when I picked the car up.

[BKLA]

We need to settle this once and for all but getting a stock one, and the IMI one and powering the solinoid to see how far each projects. Then we will also have a measure for he space needed to use and can inform the vendor so he can start telling people.

Dr. Ev -

I'll send you the hi torque starter if you really want to pursue it. F R E E
It is about two years old and has had very little use. let me know where and when.

[propricer]

Dr Ev- ... if you want to start a collection of junk hi-torque starters, I'll send you mine also ... it cost me hundreds to repair the damage done by that stupid $ 119 'deal' and, despite my warnings to others who say they are considering buying it, they keep buying them !!!

[jimkelly]

i have a brand new ebay hi torque starter on my shelf - i have been using a used 911 starter on my V8 that was given to me by a friend. jim

[degreeoff]

Well I am going to use it. I bought the ebay deal....good thing this thread came along to remind me...I'll power up the solinoid of both and compare the depths...sounds like that is the only issue and an easy fix??

UNLESS someone beats me to it! I am about 2 weeks away from that

[bbrown]

How much are new Bosch's going for?

[McMark]

Yep, there seems to be two different high torque mini starters available. One needs a bit of spacing in order to work correctly. A couple of washers on the bolts between the starter and the bellhousing is enough. Cap'n Krusty has warned that spacing it out may cause the starter to flex slightly and eventually work harden the mounts, causing failure. I installed my mini starter with washer-spacers and we'll see if there is a problem. If you listen attentively, you can hear the incorrectly installed starter. When I first put mine in I didn't use the spacers and it didn't sound quite right. So I installed the spacers and it was all better.

I still highly recommend using the mini-starters, but there is a certain amount of responsibility for making sure that they are installed correctly.

[IronHillRestorations]

Mark, respect your opinion. You clearly know what's what with these cars.

My point is most guys won't know the difference until it's probably too late, and the gamble isn't worth the reward, particularly on a six or six conversion. So you save $200-250, but if things go wrong you'll have to spend $400 (or there abouts) on a new flywheel, and labor (unless you do it yourself) or a day of your time doing the repair, plus another starter which will probably not be a cheap high torque.

I say spend the extra $200-250 (over the cost of the high torque) to get a starter that you know will NOT eat your flywheel (and probably at a bad time and place) and last a very long time. From my experience the Bosch starters are very durable.

For most guys doing a six conversion, the extra money spent isn't going to break the bank on what is usually a somewhat spendy project anyway. I mean, what's another $250 bucks when you are dropping $10,000?

I replaced a flywheel on a customer's car for the same problem, with (against my recommendation) you guessed it, another high torque starter. I told the guy when we got done, that I wouldn't do the job again. If I had an open schedule and nothing better to do, maybe. I will not put one of those on a car again.

[don9146]

I've seen the same thing. They don't seem to last as long as the Bosch starters either. I think those starters are more a liability than an asset.

This is what Perry is talking about. We swapped the flywheel in his shop (easier to type than to do...). It took only 3 years and about 5,000 miles for the Hi-Torque starter to eat the teeth off this flywheel.

[rhodyguy]

what are the difs between a 4 flywheel and a 6? could that be part of the problem? the ht starters sound weird anyway. i don't think i would know what to listen for. i guess inspecting the fw thru the lower opening on the bellhousing portion will be part of regular maintenance.

k