Dead battery?, Or starter problem? Options

[Queenie]

My car won't start. When I turn the key it makes a very loud clicking noise, and I can hear the fuel pump running, but it doesn't turn over or even pretend like it's going to.

My first thought is that the battery is dead, and that will be the first thing I try to fix, but could there be a starter problem?

No one's available to jump it right now, so I can't really do anything to solve it at the moment.

[ArtechnikA]

My car won't start. When I turn the key it makes a very loud clicking noise, and I can hear the fuel pump ...

My first thought is that the battery is dead, and that will be the first thing I try to fix, but could there be a starter problem?

could be either. how are the headlights? if they're nice and bright and don't dim when you turn the key, it's probably -not- the battery. (you really need to put a voltmeter directly on the battery terminals tho ...

sounds more like a wonky starter solenoid tho. you might try putting it in a gear and gently rocking it a little. a nudge will do. if there's an issue with flywheel engagement, that might get stuff unstuck.

you can try -TAPPING- on the side of the starter solenoid with a hammer or big wrench. you can use a BIG screwdriver to connect (short...) the solenoid terminals together - this sometimes gets stuff unstuck too... i'm hesitant to recommend that because it;s hard (for me) to describe and needs to be done right - but it's not hard if someone can provide a better description or a picture...

the starter/solenoid assembly can be removed from the car, and then you can detatch and disassemble the solenoid. these -frequently- get gummy and sticky and all it takes is a good clean and re-lube with quality grease to put them back into service.

or you can get rebuilt stuff (no new parts available for many years...) and that should get you going for a good long while.

if you can find someone with jumper cables to get you going, it may be a battery - or it may be the solenoid just needed a little more kick to get it unstuck - it's hard to be definitive from this distance ...

batteries almost always give warning signals. if it hasn't been gradually giving you haqrd, slow starts, showing headlights dimming in time with the turn signals, or anything like that - i'd suspect sticky solenoid ...

[Queenie]

The lights won't even pop up, nor will the antenna raise itself if the radio is switched on.

The way it's parked, there's no moving it unless I just want it sitting out in the middle of the street, so it's going to have to stay where it is for now. No nudging, no moving. Not gonna happen.

Edited to add: it has given me some slow starts lately, but it's always turned over ok.

I think I'm going to call AAA and get a jump. I have things to do this afternoon.

[Queenie]

Well, AAA sent a truck out and it started up almost immediately with a jump. I guess I should go battery shopping tomorrow.

I'm off to drive the stupid thing enough to keep it charged while I run my errands.

[redshift]

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Good thing it was the battery... problems suck, but a battery beats mechanical crap any day.

Starters, and alternators are the most common problems, I think... nowadays, grounds too..


M

[Queenie]

Yeah, good fucking thing it was just the battery. What with it idling low enough to die 99% of the time when I stop I made it three blocks and now the car is stuck in the Smart and Final parking lot.

Remind me again why I enjoy driving an old car?

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[redshift]

Sorry, I refuse to answer loaded questions?

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M

[Joe Bob]

"I" would check the battery when FULLY charged with a multimeter.....12.5 volts with engine NOT running, 13+ at idle, 14.5 at 2500 rpms.

More than 14.5 at 2500 rpms....bad voltage regulator, 12.5 or less when running at all time, bad alternator.......

How old was the battery? If more than 3-4 years....prolly just the battery. BUT.......what do I know..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Queenie]

Well, "I" don't have a voltmeter, so I had to make do with what I had ... which ain't much aside from common sense.

I rode the bike over to Sears last night and got a new battery, since there was no way of knowing exactly how old mine was. It was supposed to be new-ish when I bought the car, but who knows? It's not an expensive thing to replace, and mine was obviously dead so I bought a new one.

And then I did what all good girls do when they're in a fix: I called my mother.

So, bright and early this morning, my mother and I installed a new battery in my 914. It started right up and seems to be running fine now.

[hargray2]

It would still be a great idea to get even a cheap digital voltmeter. I would be very suspicious
of the charging system. You'll know soon enough if your battery dies again.

[Queenie]

I am pretty sure I know what the problem is (or at least the major contributor to the problem) and as soon as my exhusband moves back to town (next week) it'll get fixed. It took a couple of months for the battery to get worn out under the current conditions; I feel confident that a brand new battery will survive one whole week of use under the same conditions.

And if it doesn't, or the fix doesn't work, then I'll take it into the shop. But that's not an option for me right this minute, and buying a voltmeter isn't going to fix what's wrong with it anyhow.

[redshift]

YAY!

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M

[McMark]

A simple test to do at your own discretion (don't blame me if something happens). While the car is idling, pull the negative cable off the battery. The car should keep running. If it dies then your alternator is bad. Quick and dirty. Shouldn't hurt anything in our old analog cars. I wouldn't try it on a brand new car.

The battery is mostly for starting the car. When the car is running it's using the alternator. I've got my money on a bad/dying alternator. It might only be low enough that it'll run fine during the day, but at night when your lights are on it's not keeping up and slowly draining the battery.

[Queenie]

Thanks Mark...I will have Pancho check the alternator next week. I hope he wasn't planning on getting anything done on his own car...

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I do notice that the voltage drops dramatically when I turn the headlights on. I'm going to avoid driving at night as much as possible until I have more information about what's going on.

[redshift]

I damned sure wasn't going to be the one that told Mark you weren't going to touch the mechanicals..

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I left it for you to word how you would..

hehe

M

[Slowpoke]

An easier test to check if an alternator is working is to use a screw driver and attempt to touch the armature shaft. If it is charging it will be magnetized and pull the screw driver toward the shaft. If it's not working you will not feel the pull. More charging more pull. Now, on normal cars you can do this on the back of the alternator on the bearing cap. On, ahhh... "other normal cars" you can do it on the front of the alternator by the pulley.
I don't recommend pulling battery cables off any running cars. Others think it is fine. It's your money! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Queenie]

I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not going to mess with it.

And I'm still not entirely convinced that I'm not going to get rid of the damn thing.

[SirAndy]

And I'm still not entirely convinced that I'm not going to get rid of the damn thing.

and what alternatives do you have?
another old VW? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

"Alles wird gut" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_wirdgut.gif) as we say in germany.

don't tell me you don't have a smile on your face the few times the car actually runs, especially in the summer with the top off ...

this "support group" is better than AA (and i'm not talking atlanta here),
we'll get you through this phase of winter depression! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Andy