Starter Solenoid or both?, Any Suggestions… Options

[jesiv]

Well I think my starter, solenoid or both is/are going bad. Meaning after a long… hot… ride, it just won’t start just buzzes like a solenoid. After it cools down it starts right up (about two beers). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

On my old 289 Cobra jet, I just raised the hood and whacked it with a hammer – worked every time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

Should I replace the solenoid, get a new starter, or just bring more beer. If I get a new starter any recommendations on what type should I get? I have heard about more HP starters, smaller, stock, etc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Regards,

James

[swl]

Do you have a multimeter? Is so try this the next time it decides not to play. Multimeter on Volts. While cranking measure across the battery terminals. Then measure between the supply to the starter and the engine/transmission (again while cranking). If there is little or no difference then most likely it is the solenoid/starter. If the second measurement is significantly lower than the first then you are looking for a an electrical problem - most likely the oft discussed grounding strap.

[So.Cal.914]

I have owned my 72 sense 1982. For years I purchased new starters to take care

of this problem. I have used the hammer trick, squirtbottle of water etc. about 7-8

years ago I got a 'Hot Start Kit' for it. Easy to install and even when I have been

out 'Playing' and its really hot...It Starts. This problem is as old as the cars

themselves. And the opinions are going to vary.

[Mark Henry]

Do a search on the ford solenoid, but be ready for a "hot" debate.

Guys will tell you to hack into your wiring (new wire from the ignition switch), replace the ignition switch, ground strap, etc, etc.

Me? I install the ford solenoid fix (I find the bosch horn relay too wimpy) and I forget about it. Worked for me (bugs/busses then on to 914's) for the last 25yrs or so.

BTW you have to clean your grounds regardless what way you go.

[charliew]

The heat builds up resistance in a poor connection. In a cheby starter it can be the washer that makes contact when the solenoid engages. It can be as simple as a bad terminal connection in the positive or negative lines to the starter. Sometimes when you change out the starter you "fix" the bad connection. It also can be a worn or dirty solenoid plunger and it's dragging in it's bore or the brushes aren't seated on the armature and the hammer technique works. It can be the old vw problem of toooo long of a 12v path to the solenoid from the ignition switch and a relay kit will fix the weak voltage from the ignition switch to the starter. In the 60's we used a horn relay and mounted it by the battery under the seat to make a short circuit from the battery to the starter and put the wire from the ignition start on the relay to energize the relay which in turn closed it's large contacts and provided 12vdc to the starter from the battery. A good fix for old technology or worn ignition switches.

Charliew

[Gint]

I've had the Bosch hot start kit on a 914 in the past and it didn't work well. My zambeziteen has the Ford starter relay on it (from the PO) and it has never failed to start no matter how hot it got.

[jesiv]

Thanks for the ideas! Well today was project day as I start my new job next Monday. My plan was to simply get a new starter. So after changing the oil, installing a numeric VDO oil temp sensor, decide that I would replace the transmission grounding strap while I was at it and then go get a new starter. The PO hand put a FLAPS style grounding cable and I wanted to install the NOS strap I got a while ago.

Upon attempting to loosen the cable from the transmission, I was surprised that the cable was not secure at all (meaning I could wiggle the cable on the transmission). After removing the cable, I noticed that the body strap connection point was oxidized, so I cleaned it with my dremel and added some lithium grease to help reduce oxidation and help the connection. So now all the sudden the starter sounds new instead of old and tired.

Would be nice if this is the fix! Just need a long… hot… drive to know for sure?

Thanks again for the ideas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

Regards,

James

[Joe Ricard]

I got tired of this problem with my new motor and high compression.
Engine gets hot Starter wouldn't roll it.

Bought the mini starter off ebay. works great although it sounds like a Civic when engaged.

[SirAndy]

get a new starter

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)


best few bucks i ever investet. i got myself one of them high-torque starters. haven't had a single "hot start problem" since. it's been 5 years or so ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[Cap'n Krusty]

Previous discussions, both here and elsewhjere, have brought up experiences of people using the high torque gear reduction starters causing flywheel damage. Be aware of this. I use a 6v Ford relay, and have for about 20 years. Never a problem. BTW, the 911 SC style starter also has its own problems ........ , the armature bends.

The Cap'n

[SirAndy]

Previous discussions, both here and elsewhjere, have brought up experiences of people using the high torque gear reduction starters causing flywheel damage. Be aware of this.

i believe there was an early version that didn't extend the gear far enough to fully engage with the flywheel.

i doublechecked the wear marks on mine and verified that i'm getting full engagement ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[Mark Henry]

I can tell you why the high torque starter always works.....

Same reason the Ford solenoid works, it requires less volts to kick the plunger than a stock bosch solenoid.
The Ford solenoid at $12 (say $20 max with wire, etc) is a bit cheaper though.

[mightyohm]

I've been using a small Bosch cube relay for years and years, no problems since installing it. The solenoid trigger doesn't take a ton of current to click, but it does need voltage. The hot start relay makes sure the solenoid sees the most voltage at all times.

[krazykonrad]

I've got the same problem. Today's project is replacing the solenoid ($50 at zims). Hopefully it will work.

Konrad 72/4