Gas Additive, Fact? or Myth? Options

[Engman]

Site

?

M

[Cap'n Krusty]

My standard answer: If this stuff/thing/system/process reduces emissions and gives improved fuel mileage, why haven't the auto manufacturers jumped all over it? After all, they've spent literally BILLIONS of Dollars/Euros/Yen/Pounds/Francs/Marks/Lira looking for just these results, and Joe Blow has developed this stuff/thing/process in his freakin' KITCHEN/SHED/GARAGE?
With simple ingredients and parts he's sourced at Walgreens/Home Depot/Ace?

I rest my case ............................. The Cap'n

[VaccaRabite]

Well, why not.

In the mind of the corporate exec, if you had the option of selling X gallons of fuel, or Y gallons of fuel (and X > Y) you would need a pretty spectacular argument on why you would choose option Y.

Other things to consider: Reformulation costs money. Lots of money.
Most corporations are resistant to change (especially change that could damage profits). The only reason most corporations change in a manner which reduces overall sales is due to governmental oversight.

Big oil has a long history of buying up patents that would reduce fuel needs and shelving them.

I say do the experiment. It might be snake oil, it might not. The only way to tell is to run it in your car, plot the numbers, and report back. For myself, the cons (acetone is nasty stuff, it might kill my paint if I spill it, and the marginal benefit does not outsize the marginal cost in my time) don't make it a viable experiment right now.

Zach

[Cap'n Krusty]

Well, why not.

................... snip ..........................................................

Big oil has a long history of buying up patents that would reduce fuel needs and shelving them.

.................... snip ......................................



Zach

Care to list some of those patents? That assertion has been floating around for decades, maybe even a century, and I've never heard of a single verifiable proof it's been happening. And I wasn't talking about "big oil". It's like the fabled 1930s "100 MPG carburetor" that agents of Standard Oil stole (and killed the inventor). Not bloody likely, as they say.

It's the car manufacturers who are under the government gun, the gun called "CAFE", and who are desperate for ways to meet the new fuel economy standards with cars that weigh more every year because they have to install all the mandated safety equipment to protect the motoring public from itself. What's a 914/6 weigh? You think they could have produced a Boxster (25 years later) that weighs the same? Maybe not. The Cap'n

[Jake Raby]

I have yet to see a single fuel or oil additive that does anything positive for our engines. Most oil additives I have experienced either killed the oil's base additive package, or simply killed the efficiency of the engine.

The only thing I add to oil or fuel is Marvel Mystery oil and I do that every 5-6 tank fulls or when I am ready to do an oil change after 10-15K on the current oil and want to flush all the crap out of the system when I drain the used oil...

[VaccaRabite]

Care to list some of those patents? That assertion has been floating around for decades, maybe even a century, and I've never heard of a single verifiable proof it's been happening. And I wasn't talking about "big oil". It's like the fabled 1930s "100 MPG carburetor" that agents of Standard Oil stole (and killed the inventor). Not bloody likely, as they say.

No. I am procrastinating on a statistics project right now (and should not even be Worlding - I should be studying...). But I can assure you that buying out threatening competition is as old as business.

It's the car manufacturers who are under the government gun, the gun called "CAFE", and who are desperate for ways to meet the new fuel economy standards...

Fuel is also very heavily watched by govt oversite - on both the federal and state levels. That is why we have summer and winter formulations, and why Cali runs a different mix of gas then Penna.

However, consider the implications of Chevy asking its customers to handle volatile chemicals in the name of gas mileage. It would be a legal and logistal nightmare.

Also consider that all the major auto producers have fought the recent (small) CAFE increase. They all sited the cost to make the changes needed. The cost in this case would be convincing Exxon to introduce a chemical that might lower its profits. CAFE is not interested in what the Oil industry is doing, its simply telling the car makers to make more efficient cars with what Big Oil is providing.

Consider the differences in European diesel and American diesel. The gains were proven in Europe that thier mix was better in almost every way. But it still took an act of congress to make American refineries change their formulation, and American automakers to make use of the cleaner diesel for the DSM.

What's a 914/6 weigh? You think they could have produced a Boxster (25 years later) that weighs the same? Maybe not. The Cap'n

Not possible. Take out the AC, safety stuff, Multi-media system, etc - sure. But then its a race car that's not legal for street use, and way too raw for Porsche's current gentrified clients.

Zach

[Pat Garvey]

In my first life, I was a chemist for Kodak - a QC chemist to be precise.

I used quite a bit of acetone on a daily basis, both for anyalses & cleaning. This was 1970. Used it for drying wet glass testing equipment.

Then, the EPA & OSHA came along, and further educated us about things like acetone, benzene & formalehydes. All of a sudden, these things were HAZARDOUS, and carcinogenic. Hmm, I had to work with these avery day - all day. Decided that there was a better place for me in life - bean counter! Re-educated right now. Good decision!

No- zero amount of acetone is good for you, or your 914. Think about it - what is the active ingredient in lots of nail polish removers? Acetone! Do you want that to touch ANY part of your 914 injection system?

No, you don't. There are way too many parts in the injection system that are plastic (like injector tits) and (thru the body plastic lines). Even a 1 percent acetone mix would be destructive!

Run, don't just walk away, from these!!!!!!! May work for more contemporary cars, but not a 914.
Pat

[VaccaRabite]

I would never, ever do this on a 914. Modern car only.
Actually, I'd never do it, as I said in my first post. But it is still an interesting thing to consider.

Zach

[sean_v8_914]

maybe I'll try it in my 500 dollar car(no not my 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), my Geo tracker

[Elliot Cannon]

A friend of mine had a chevy van transmission drop on his arm and kinda crush it a little. Enough that he needed surgery. When he asked the doctor what they used to clean the grease out of his arm, (it was a really dirty trans) the doctor said "acetone". The doc said, "it's a little hard on the flesh but it cleans stuff up real good." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) The doc probably drives an old Porsche.

Cheers, Elliot

[Elliot Cannon]

Well, why not.

................... snip ..........................................................

Big oil has a long history of buying up patents that would reduce fuel needs and shelving them.

.................... snip ......................................



Zach

Care to list some of those patents? That assertion has been floating around for decades, maybe even a century, and I've never heard of a single verifiable proof it's been happening. And I wasn't talking about "big oil". It's like the fabled 1930s "100 MPG carburetor" that agents of Standard Oil stole (and killed the inventor). Not bloody likely, as they say.

It's the car manufacturers who are under the government gun, the gun called "CAFE", and who are desperate for ways to meet the new fuel economy standards with cars that weigh more every year because they have to install all the mandated safety equipment to protect the motoring public from itself. What's a 914/6 weigh? You think they could have produced a Boxster (25 years later) that weighs the same? Maybe not. The Cap'n

My Father in Law was on the cover of Car and Driver magazine back in I think 1965. He worked for a company that developed a revolutionary carburetor. The carb was tested extensively. Increased gas mileage considerably and was then put on a shelf, never to be seen again. He would never talk about it and I think was a little bitter about it. His company was the Dresser Corporation based in ...Houston Texas.

Cheers, Elliot

[spare time toys]

I put acetone in my passats tank all the time. I have no troubles at all. I run about 25MPG in town back and forth to work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) It may have helped with the mileage it may not but it isnt hurting a thing and my fuel system is not falling apart from 6 oz. to a tank of gas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[TravisNeff]

It's the car manufacturers who are under the government gun, the gun called "CAFE", and who are desperate for ways to meet the new fuel economy standards with cars that weigh more every year because they have to install all the mandated safety equipment to protect the motoring public from itself. What's a 914/6 weigh? You think they could have produced a Boxster (25 years later) that weighs the same? Maybe not. The Cap'n

A boxster that weighs the same as the 914-6. That'd be an Elise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Allan]

Care to list some of those patents? That assertion has been floating around for decades, maybe even a century, and I've never heard of a single verifiable proof it's been happening.

I use to work for Lear Astronics in Santa Monica and they had a plaque in one of the conference rooms that had a picture of a product that Bill Lear developed in a competition against Howard Hughs to see who could make a cheap alternative fuel that would allow them drive drive from California to New York without refueling. He called it Learoleum. In the plaque there was also the copy of a check from Standard Oil (can't remember the amount), that was allegedly for the patent.

[Dave_Darling]

I know some people who have tested the Acetone thing; it's a myth. No effect on fuel economy. (And those are people who are really really really serious about fuel economy; most of them have quite a bit of instrumentation and are very analytical about testing for MPGs!)

Evidently toluene (I think it was!) will increase the effective octane rating of your gasoline. But it also does Bad Things to your emissions equipment, and may also put out extra pollutants on its own...

--DD

[Porcharu]

I worked in my beater Volvo that I used to drive to work. 11 miles each way same thing day in an day out for 4 years. Purchased gas from the same pump at the corner station. Car got 19 MPG on plain gas and 20.5 with 3 oz acetone plus a few drops of 2 stroke oil into a 15 gallon tank.
Toluene most certainly raises the octane of gasoline - and it is a normal component of gasoline. My old track VW had an 11:1 16V and pinged like hell on 92 octane, it was just as happy running a mixture of 5 gallons 92 octane and 1 gallon toluene as is was on 100 octane unleaded race gas.

[Richard Casto]

It's bogus. I know people who have tried it and it didn't work. Also, I can change my gas mileage (I average about 30 MPG) in my 1998 Civic +/- 2 MPG just by slight changes in driving style. I think people who try the acetone and see slight changes may find them to not be statistically significant or reproduceable.

Anyhow, Acetone in your tank is old news. How about this one...

http://www.drivewater.com/

[Brando]

If you'll run acetone in your system, I also have some fuel-line magnets that'll up your mileage a little more too!

Calculate the costs though... Running 87 octane (lowest rating at the pump), then adding acetone. So, that's $3.89/gal + whatever the 16oz of acetone cost... So, are you saving anything with no real increase?

I could understand running some octane booster or even an additive like techron to help clean (with no negative effect on mileage) but acetone? nah.

Stick to the proven true methods of getting better fuel economy:

Don't run your A/C all the time.
Remove excess junk from your car (dead weight).
Avoid stop-and-go traffic.
Don't stomp the pedal and let off, cruise.
If driving manual, keep it in a higher gear (lower RPMs) if possible in city traffic.
Keep it serviced and running well.
DONT RACE.

That's about it.

Also, have you ever noticed that most cars with better mileage have power-nothing and are compact-coupes or sedans?

[r_towle]

My standard answer: If this stuff/thing/system/process reduces emissions and gives improved fuel mileage, why haven't the auto manufacturers jumped all over it? After all, they've spent literally BILLIONS of Dollars/Euros/Yen/Pounds/Francs/Marks/Lira looking for just these results, and Joe Blow has developed this stuff/thing/process in his freakin' KITCHEN/SHED/GARAGE?
With simple ingredients and parts he's sourced at Walgreens/Home Depot/Ace?

I rest my case ............................. The Cap'n

GM and Ford no longer make money on cars. They make profit as a financial business, investing in stocks, bonds etc.

Take a look at both of these companies portfolios..
Take a look at Exxons portfolio.

these three companies are the largest share holders in each other...
Its called cross investment, and GM is the king.
They are making more money of the Exxon Mobil investment than they make as a manufacturer.

It may be an urban legand, but the motive is there...

Rich

[736conver]

HHO is the way to go. My next door neighbor installed one on his Saturn sl2. Hes seeing about 20% increase on mileage so far.
Im about to make my own and install it on my gas hog Durango.