O.T. Death of CART?, Will the evil TG win? Options

[tracks914]

TG Increases Bid
I am a die hard CART fan. I am passionate about the CART/IRL split. I hate what Tony George has done to open wheel racing in North America. I hate to watch the IRL crap wagons go round in circles.
Now it appears he might get his way with"his hand full of nails for CART's coffin" He has bid to buy CART's assests but only the FORD engines, (so that the rest of the league will have nothing to put in there race cars if they started a new series) all the emergency equipment including the mobile hospital, (a new series would need all this to start up) and only one race, (the Long Beach Grand Prix) so that Toyota could attend their marquis race.
He claims he cares about open wheel racing in N/A but really only wants to kill CART. 10 years after he split from CART it appears his deep pockets might win.
As far as I'm concerned Tony can suck dead air from my liley white butt! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

[seanery]

I'm not exactly fond of what open wheel racing has ended up. But, CART had a helluva lot to do with their demise. It was so piss-poorly run that it bankrupted itself 4 years after going public. I liked the formula, but the last couple seasons its been a yawn. IRL isn't very exciting to me because ovals and ovals and ovals are boring, but mix it in with road races and temporary circuits and its a nice mix. The IRL WILL do road racing if it get's CARTs equipment like it has bid to do. Look for them in 05 if so. If the ex-team owners get their bid accepted, expect CART's new iteration to fail in 2 or 3 years, it just has to. Open wheel racing's only hope in North America is one league and the only way that will happen (at this point) is if the IRL is it.

[tracks914]

Open wheel racing's only hope in North America is one league and the only way that will happen (at this point) is if the IRL is it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Agreed totally. I just hate the way it is going about, TG and big bussiness taking to the little guys.
CART killed itself trying to finance the series the way TG did for ten years. He had 100's of millions to do it with. CART had very little. The bad part of all this is the fact that one man will have all the cards. When CART was run by the owners and TG wanted to be able to VITO all votes but was denied, he left and took his bat and ball with him (the 500) Then he finances the series until CART ran out of money. Now he has more than a VITO, he is god to all open wheel racing. (if he wins, if not this time, maybe next year)

[ArtechnikA]

other than the Indy 500, i've never watched an IRL race all the way through. even the TV coverage sucks, because they keep having to find camera vantage points where you can't see the empty grandstands.

for those of you who have never seen an IRL (Indy Race Lite) race, here's the description of most of them: 33 cars start. on lap 3, a hot dog tries to go too fast on cold tires and crashes into the wall, possibly taking out every one to his right. after 10 yellow flag laps to clear the track, racing resumes. repeat a couple of times. finally tires and drivers have warmed up and we get 20 continuous laps of green-flag racing. time for pit stops. unless there are more cold-tire crashes, the wick is turned up and people start racing. engines start breaking (stock blocks: you can make 'em fast, but you can't make 'em last...) and there are more crashes as people hit the oil. repeat for 2 hrs.

roll the dice to determine which of the last 6 running cars will be able to limp accross the line first. roll credits.

[indydad]

The C^RT crybabies, ESPECIALLY the ones up north,eh......can take MR. Tracy et all and have at it. We have a new WalMart and with a few traffic cones you could have another C^RT parade. C^RT died because of it's arrogance and corporate structures. Having the owners make the rules, yeah,THAT makes sense. If you have NOT been to INDY or anyother IRL race in person how can you be so sure you would not have fun. Try it, you may like it or at least learn to appreciate what in DEVELOPING before your jaded eyes.
BTW, remember your rant in 2 years.
Jerry
INDY (THE Motorsoprt capitol of the universe)

[mike_the_man]

I don't follow either very closely. And I don't know too much about all of the politics behind whats going on. What I do know is this: I find oval track racing to be one of the most boring forms of motorsports there are. Left, left, left. Right! Why would you want to go right???? This is just my opinion, I do realize that there are many many oval track fans. If the IRL was to throw in more road courses, I would be a lot more inclined to watch.

[nealnorlack]

If the IRL takes over CART assets and includes just as many road courses as roundy rounds, it would have one of the most successful racing series in history. Left turn races are very successful in some parts of the country (NASCAR), and road races are popular just about everywhere. I know I'll miss the Long Beach race if it ends this year. I'm hoping something can be worked out.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Cheers, Elliot

[Scott Carlberg]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) tony george (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[jnp914]

Am I the only one that remembers when Penske, Patrick, et al hijacked 'Indycar' racing away from USAC???

Tony George rightfully feared what the CART owners were positioning themselves to do. They (Penske, etc) had their own chassis suppliers, their own engine suppliers, and their own tracks. It was only a matter of time until the CART guys tried to muscle Indianapolis away from Tony. It was too attractive a plum to allow it to remain outside the CART cabal's control.

So he launched a pre-emptive strike and protected his asset, arguably the most valuable one in American open wheel racing: the Indy 500. He structured the League around it. Don't forget, he didn't ban CART teams from racing, they just had to race in the League races and not cherry-pick. Sounds like a reasonable business model, at least in the racing world.

Those of you dedicated CART followers surely must recognize that CART and its' formation mirrors Bernie Eccelstone's hijacking of Formula 1 away from the FIA. Once upon a time, a track with an FIA Formula 1 sanction would put on a race with a prize money purse, and Formula 1 teams would enter and compete. Bernie and his fellow squids muscled up, formed the Formula One Constructors Association and took the whole show in house. FOCA puts on the races, arranges the prize money which is never revealed, and formulates the rules for F1. A track that wants a race has to contract with Bernie to bring the show to town. No contract with Bernie, no race. One big package deal, and carefully controlled.

Gee, sounds exactly like CART.

I would never call Tony a saint, but I do not think he has raped and pillaged the racing scene as some would claim. Penske and crew's hands are a lot dirtier in this respect.

Remember, what is good for Roger is not necessarily good for racing.

[tracks914]

If you have NOT been to INDY or anyother IRL race in person how can you be so sure you would not have fun. Try it, you may like it or at least learn to appreciate what in DEVELOPING before your jaded eyes.

I have been to INDY (back in 94 before it was watered down) Daytona, Michigan, Montreal and Toronto's Molson Indy. (and had fun at all of them) I appreciated what it WAS back then. Since then it has been a joke. The whole series has been a one trick pony with an average grandstand seating less than a pre season NBA game. (except the 500, but even that has suffered substantially since the split) The split has hurt all openwheel racing in North America, all because of one mans greed. The year before Penske left CART, CART tried several times to amalgamate the series but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) TG just said F you. Die CART Die! He wasn't interested in a series where he might have to share a rule book, he just wants total control (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif) JUST LIKE BERNIE over in Europe. Oh that will be better for sure. :finger2:

[rick 918-S]

yawn.
I like real cars. That stuff it out of touch. The way I see it if they go bye bye they'll be more opportunity for Vintage and SCCA type racing to be seen.

[Scott S]

yooon.
I like real cars. That stuff it out of touch. The way I see it if they go bye bye they'll be more opportunity for Vintage and SCCA type racing to be seen.

yep. nothing more boring than an oval track race - even indy (I was there in 92).

add my YAWN to the pile...

[indydad]

Each to his own, I respect all opinions, but I would like to see one open wheel series. The true competition is for sponsorships and that is in favor of N^SCAR, right now. I would love to see one open wheel league with 2 series. One road race with 12 or so street and natural road courses and 12 or so ovals, super and short. One champion from each and an overall, with HUGE bonus for winning both. Now, this probably will not happen exactally like this, but the League IS open to change. Please, just give it time.
The insulting imagis on these responses are low brow N^ASCAR crap, let's keep this board civil.
Ole' Dad in INDY

[tracks914]

The insulting imagis on these responses are low brow N^ASCAR crap, let's keep this board civil.
Ole' Dad in INDY

OK no more images.
I have been watching open wheel racing for 30 years. I used to race stock cars myself. My workshop is plastered with open wheel cars and posters from Teo Fabi, Mario Andretti and Micheal too.
You have to admit, the best racing, the closest competition and highest sponsorship $$$$ was all in the late 80's and early 90's. No if and or buts the facts speak for themselves. Then Tony didn't like not having control so he split the sport. If he could have sat back and said, yes I can run Indy and the owners can run the rest of the sport, we may have a series that could compete with NASCAR for $$$$$ and air time.
But Nooooo, Tony was greedy, plain and simple, he wanted it all and HE single handedly split the series and caused what we have today.
CART has made several attempts to reunit including cancelling all races in May in order to come together, have engine builders design an engine that could run in both series but noooo, Tony just said "my pockets are deep enough" and "Im walking around with a handfull of nails for CARTs coffin" He has never wanted to bring the sport together, HE HAS ONLY WANTED TO OWN IT!!!
And he can bite me!

[indydad]

Thanks Tracks, actually we have more in common than not. I ocassionally get out my 1961 Road & Track and Sports Car Graphic mags and remember the glory days of racing. I am biased living in Indy all my life and my passion reflects that. I agree with most of what you said last, our basic difference is that I trust what TG is doing will be better than what we have now, greedy or not. Most sucessful buisness men are greedy is some way. I have the same passion for my teener and I think we have that totally in common.
Jerry
Indy

[rhodyguy]

funny. when tg went his own way the pundits laughed and said it would never go. said pundits are now eating their words. ever notice the empty stands in michican when cart runs there? nascar fills the place up.

kevin

[tracks914]

funny. when tg went his own way the pundits laughed and said it would never go. said pundits are now eating their words. ever notice the empty stands in michican when cart runs there? nascar fills the place up.

kevin

Cart doesn't go there and hasn't for a few years. Ever see how empty the stands are at all but one IRL race. There are more people in the stands at an NBA game.
The networks have said that the hardest thing to film is an IRL race because Tony has told them they cannot show the empty grandstands except at Indy.

[tracks914]

Thanks Tracks, actually we have more in common than not.

I have the same passion for my teener and I think we have that totally in common.
Jerry
Indy

I think we have a lot in common too. I loved going to Indy years ago (beautiful city) but now it doesn't interest me.
We both have a strong passion for open wheel racing. Neither of us like "the split" it hurt everyone.
We both want to see it all back together where it stands a chance of competing with NASCAR for fans and $$$$$$$$
We may even have common favorite drivers.
And we both love teeners.

Now that OWRS group has won, I just hope they can make some kind of deal with TG to bring the 2 series together. Not a hostile takeover and shut down one series to make the other one stronger. That would just alienate 90% of the CART fans.

We might have this conversation again this time next year (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[seanery]

A bankruptcy court judge rejected a higher bid from the Indy Racing League this afternoon and awarded the assets of CART to a group intent on keeping the rival racing series going.

The IRL upped its bid to $13.5 million today during an auction in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

CART's creditors told Judge Frank Otte that they preferred OWRS lower bid of $3.2 million because it included acceptance of existing contracts and liabilities. IRL's bid didn't cover those.

The IRL originally bid $3.2 million, but with designs of taking on minimal CART contracts, the most noticeable for Long Beach, Calif., CART's premier race. OWRS first bid at $1.6 million.

Otte keep pushing to settle the auction today.

The hearing opened this morning with an analysis of competing bids.

In front of an overflow crowd that included IRL founder and Indianapolis Motor Speedway owner Tony George and OWRS leaders Paul Gentilozzi and Kevin Kalkhoven, Otte told both sides to go to their rooms and settle on final bids.

"We're going to decide it," Otte said, "and we're going to decide it today."

OWRS, in trying to keep the CART series going despite about $100 million in losses last season, upped their cash offer to match the IRL. CART creditor's attorney Jim Knauer explained with several attorney interruptions how the OWRS bid was preferred because keeping the series going ensured a higher percentage of payback to creditors.

"That's our job here. Our job is to get the creditors their money," Knauer told Otte.

But IRL lawyers took issue with many of the estimated numbers in the bid comparison and raised questions about the financial capability of OWRS.

George wanted unify open-wheel racing, which split in 1996 with the creation of the IRL and has led to continual criticism that two racing series do more harm than good to the industry.

Otte prevented an attempt to end the proceedings before an auction when he refused to accept a conditional offer from CART that a $62 million loan to OWRS need not be repaid if OWRS was declared the victor.

"That's now how we conduct business here," Otte said.

[seanery]

This decision "may" be good for CART's creditors, but it is BAD for open wheel racing. I say this and I am a Paul Gentilozi fan, I hope he can make it work. Look for CART & Trans Am to share a lot since Trans-Am is his, too.