Steve's Autocross Project, Modifications, ideas, suggestions... Options

[sgetsiv]

I started modifying my car a few weeks ago for autocross. It's a 1973 1.7l car with a more or less stock 1975 2.0l engine, very clean. After the Portland PCA AX #1, I made a few postings and got some suggestions. Rather than continue to hijack that thread, I thought I would start my own.

So here's where we are at today:

Tarrett Engineering front sway bar installed and set to mid point
225# Rear Springs and perches
Koni Sport Adjustable Shocks set 1/2 turn from full stiffness
Turbo Tie Rods
205/50-15 Kuhmo Ecsta XS Tires
Empi 44mm Dual Carbs (replaced a single Weber)
Mallory Unilite Mechanical Advance Distributor
JWest RennShift side-shift
Triad Headers and Exhaust System - heat disconnected of course
Porterfield R4-S Brake Pads - to be installed next week

I think that's about it. Damn, she drives nice. Super tight in the corners. Wow.

So, what's next? Besides just drive and compete. I know that. I don't plan to miss a single autocross opportunity in the Portland area.

Pictures next. Don't complain yet. Would love to get more ideas and suggestions.

Thank you,

Steve

[J P Stein]

I started modifying my car a few weeks ago for autocross. It's a 1973 1.7l car with a more or less stock 1975 2.0l engine, very clean. After the Portland PCA AX #1, I made a few postings and got some suggestions. Rather than continue to hijack that thread, I thought I would start my own.

So here's where we are at today:

Tarrett Engineering front sway bar installed and set to mid point
225# Rear Springs and perches
Koni Sport Adjustable Shocks set 1/2 turn from full stiffness
Turbo Tie Rods
205/50-15 Kuhmo Ecsta XS Tires
Empi 44mm Dual Carbs (replaced a single Weber)
Mallory Unilite Mechanical Advance Distributor
JWest RennShift side-shift
Triad Headers and Exhaust System - heat disconnected of course
Porterfield R4-S Brake Pads - to be installed next week

I think that's about it. Damn, she drives nice. Super tight in the corners. Wow.

So, what's next? Besides just drive and compete. I know that. I don't plan to miss a single autocross opportunity in the Portland area.

Pictures next. Don't complain yet. Would love to get more ideas and suggestions.

Thank you,

Steve

That is a lot of progress since we last met.
For now, just get some more butt time. There is a long slippery slope just ahead.....you may not wanna get too close to the edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[koozy]

There is a long slippery slope just ahead.....you may not wanna get too close to the edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Aint that the truth... ask me how I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[grantsfo]

Good AX alignment ( make sure you have some decent neg camber up front - at least -2) and good AX tires either Kuhmo 710's or Hoosier A6. Weight reduction. Weight and stickage are two biggest components that impact times in a lower powered 914.

When you get real serious a good seat and a harness will help too.

But like JP says if you dont have much AX expereince its drive drive drive. Spend lots of time walking course with a variety of people and ask how they would take sections. Beware of people who think they know the best way through a turn while walking a course. Get expereinced people to ride with you and offer tips.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: May 16 2009, 08:23 AM

[J P Stein]

When last I saw Steve's car (bout a month ago) it was a stock 914 except for the motor, it seems....very nice I must add. I only suggested a front sway bar.
It appears he took that ball & ran with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Looking over his mods it would seem that there is going to be some suspension tuning required...hopefully the motor is up to snuff..there are a lot of changes there.

My thinking is to get this beastie under control before making any more changes.
He will get any assistance he wants to tighten the nut behind the wheel.

Other than that, I agree with Grant for future help....cept I'm a Hoosier fan.

[sgetsiv]

[sgetsiv]

JP - Sorry to confuse by listing all the mods from stock. The engine mods were all done prior to the first AX. The only thing new since the AX is the front sway bar, rear springs, tires and brake pads.

Grant - As to front camber - I have negative 1.8 degrees currently. 13mm across 420mm wheel width. It's about the same in the rear.

[sgetsiv]

Engine and Interior Shots

[Randal]

[/quote]


That is a lot of progress since we last met.
For now, just get some more butt time. There is a long slippery slope just ahead.....you may not wanna get too close to the edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
[/quote]


See if you can get pictures of the car on a course. Both tight and wide corners, also during rapid direction changes - like a slalom course. IMHO this (really) helps to figure out what the car is doing in different places and allows you an educated view on the appropriate adjustments.

Of course if you are one of those "gifted ones" that can read a car from the seat of your pants, then all the better.

[914forme]

I feel it is better to learn the car with semi sticky street tires. A6, and 710s can cover a lot of problems, and can generate some bad habits. Learn to drive smooth and carry your speed. After that race tries and lighter/wider wheels would be next.

Evolution runs a good Auto-x school if they ever get in your area.

[CliffBraun]

Based on my experiences I'd say remove as much weight as possible, Add a rear swaybar, tires, drive the crap outta the car, consider 5-lug based on brakes and mass, consider engine upgrades, LSD etc.

Really, tires and driving will do more than anything else. I'm a big fan of the rear bar, it keeps all the wheels on the ground and allows for REALLY controllable oversteer. All of the other stuff is a few hundredths of a second here and there. Have you stiffened the car at all? I've got the weltmeister rear kit, and a 'cage' which pretty much only adds stiffness, I'm considering doing some more up front.

[sgetsiv]

It probably would make sense to add a rear sway bar. But, I think the biggest improvement I could possibly make would be to put a Raby 2316 engine in there. That would be cool, but it takes 4-1/2 months to get one. That's a lot of sleepless night in anticipation.

Well, I'll keep driving, cleaning and polishing whilst I wait. I repainted the skirts, spoiler and valence this week. Looks, oh so much better.

I used VHT, Hood Bumper and Trim Paint, SP27. The new nozzle system is awesome for rattle can stuff. Dries enough for handling in 3-4 hours.

[914forme]

All the power in the world does you no good if you can't hook it up. You have also entered a slippery slope as it will require rejetting them Empi 44s $$, a Tangerine Evo Header $$$$. And well depending on the flavor of 2316, a LSD $$$$, new tires $$$, maybe $$$$ cause of wheels. Next thing you know you have flared fenders, a stiffened chassis, a roll cage. Now you have a car thats ready for the 2316, but no $$$$ left for one.

Don't ask me how I know that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Tune, learn, drive, rinse and repeat.

I will give you a great example, I guy here used to run a semi-stock Miata, suspension and tire tricks galore. He was a top dog, running in the top 10 here constantly. He had his sights set of FTD, so off to MazdaSpeed for a turbo, that will do it. Now he has power, and can't drive the car worth crap. He upset the balance of the entire car, now he is lucky to be in the top 25. And gets beating by the same guys who used to beat him every weekend, and now he has another 15 or so he gets to see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) him.

I have not told him, but if he just turned down the boast a little, he would be back in the hunt.

On the other hand it does not hurt to dream. I am personally looking at a 2270-175 engine kit right now. As the 2316-210 requires just so much more of an invest it peripheral systems. Mainly Transaxles!!! Don't get me worng I would love a 2316-210 combo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) but I also have to be realistic.

And yes I run a rear bar, others don't. Suspension setup on a 914 is like underwear, every body has there opinions, mine is like wearing a poison ivy g-string.

Honestly I don't care what you run as long as you make to the dance - have fun.

[914forme]

Now for the analytical respounce.

The stock US spec 2.0L is ~90 HP, my class I have to run 2175 lbs, wet, no driver.

Thats a power to weight ratio of 24.16 to 1

2056-125 is 17.4
2270-175 is 12.4
2316-185 is 11.7
2316-210 is 10.357

These cost from $4K-6K

If I shave it down t fighting weight, not Pauls feather weights, but a reasonable racer weight. 1750 lbs. This is if your rules allow.

2.0-90 19.4 to 1
2056-125 is 14
2270-175 is 10
2316-185 is 9.4
2316-210 is 8.3

Now you get more bennifits if your car weighs less. Responsiveness, cornering, acceleration, braking, tire wear.

Unfortunately you also have to put it into persecutive and figure, a new Vette, the bane of my existence, has a PTW of 7.9 to 1. It also cost ~4.5 times more of an entry price. Luckily auto-x is not about HP, though it helps, you don't necessarily need it to be successful.

[J P Stein]

I'm around a 7.5:1 ratio.....it is not a foot to the floor & steer rig.

You have to learn to drive such a beastie. To do that, it has be reliable.
I have had 2 instances where I missed runs due to breakdown (both electrical) in 9 seasons. Anyone that thinks that such reliability is possible with a 200 hp T-4 has been drinkin' Jake's kool-ade. Anyone here that can *show* me I'm wrong, speak up.

[Randal]

I'm around a 7.5:1 ratio.....it is not a foot to the floor & steer rig.

You have to learn to drive such a beastie. To do that, it has be reliable.
I have had 2 instances where I missed runs due to breakdown (both electrical) in 9 seasons. Anyone that thinks that such reliability is possible with a 200 hp T-4 has been drinkin' Jake's kool-ade. Anyone here that can *show* me I'm wrong, speak up.

You have a great record JP, no doubt, but saying "any" 200hp T-4 can't be reliable is a stretch.

The capability to make 200HP with a T-4 hasn't been around long, so essentially no one can *show* you, with your specified parameters.

On the other hand I know my motor was put together right and will be/ is reliable. With the new valve springs it will be more than 200hp with huge torque.

To be honest we've figured it would go 4 seasons without breaking the case, but only time will tell.

[grantsfo]

When somone with a 200 HP T4 drives at places other than for 40 second runs at an AX a few times a year, perhaps on track and on street for extended miles I will begin to believe a 200 HP T4 is reliable. Until then they are still all very expereimental. Very cool but expereimental.

Certainly I wouldnt trust anyone other than Jake. He is the Jedi master of big T4's. You dont want to stray too far from the force if you are going down path of a big T4 that makes over 200 HP. Too many things that can go wrong that could spell the end to your empire of money spent on these beasts.

[J P Stein]

I'm around a 7.5:1 ratio.....it is not a foot to the floor & steer rig.

You have to learn to drive such a beastie. To do that, it has be reliable.
I have had 2 instances where I missed runs due to breakdown (both electrical) in 9 seasons. Anyone that thinks that such reliability is possible with a 200 hp T-4 has been drinkin' Jake's kool-ade. Anyone here that can *show* me I'm wrong, speak up.

You have a great record JP, no doubt, but saying "any" 200hp T-4 can't be reliable is a stretch.

The capability to make 200HP with a T-4 hasn't been around long, so essentially no one can *show* you, with your specified parameters.

On the other hand I know my motor was put together right and will be/ is reliable. With the new valve springs it will be more than 200hp with huge torque.

To be honest we've figured it would go 4 seasons without breaking the case, but only time will tell.

I'm not wishing ill will on anyone.....particularlly you. I hope your motor makes 4-5 years without problems.....but as Grant says, it's an experiment and from following your build, a damned expensive one (prolly more than I have i my whole car).....BUT....show me, I'll (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) to ya.

BTW, 10 weeks till the Shoot Out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sgetsiv]

Lots of considerations, that's for sure. I am attracted to the Jake Raby turn key engine program; that's got to be the most risk-free way to put some serious power in my car.

I've got a damn nice 2.0 liter now that's probably worth some bucks towards the purchase of a new engine. The carbs are from Jake anyway and were purchased with the idea of doing the 185 kit at least. I have to send them in when he's ready to tune the engine. I'll probably sell my engine with the old single carb and with the Triad headers. Jake wants me to get the Tangerines to match up to his motor.

I had an awesome drive from Portland to Bend today over Santiam Pass - I love the new sway bars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) A couple of my wheels aren't perfectly true which caused some serious vibration; that is, until I stopped at Les Schwab and had the tires rotated. Amazing how they spin true on the rear but not on the front. Smooth as glass after the rotation.

[Randal]

I'm around a 7.5:1 ratio.....it is not a foot to the floor & steer rig.

You have to learn to drive such a beastie. To do that, it has be reliable.
I have had 2 instances where I missed runs due to breakdown (both electrical) in 9 seasons. Anyone that thinks that such reliability is possible with a 200 hp T-4 has been drinkin' Jake's kool-ade. Anyone here that can *show* me I'm wrong, speak up.

You have a great record JP, no doubt, but saying "any" 200hp T-4 can't be reliable is a stretch.

The capability to make 200HP with a T-4 hasn't been around long, so essentially no one can *show* you, with your specified parameters.

On the other hand I know my motor was put together right and will be/ is reliable. With the new valve springs it will be more than 200hp with huge torque.

To be honest we've figured it would go 4 seasons without breaking the case, but only time will tell.

I'm not wishing ill will on anyone.....particularlly you. I hope your motor makes 4-5 years without problems.....but as Grant says, it's an experiment and from following your build, a damned expensive one (prolly more than I have i my whole car).....BUT....show me, I'll (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) to ya.

BTW, 10 weeks till the Shoot Out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Expensive and the till is still open... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

I'd like to make the shootout - still trying to get my car back in order.