sputtering 1.7 FI, what do i need to do Options

[Freedom]

well first of all i replaced all of the vacuum lines, ran some injector clearer through it and checked the timing and replaced the plugs, points and wires, cap rotor...blah blah blah... i cannot figure out whant next. i took the TB off and cleaned it removed the decel valve it ran worse. and got rid of the emissions canister.. what next before i go out of my mind!!.

[TheCabinetmaker]

What exactly is it doing? sputtering is kinda general. does it idle smooth? have you cleaned the trigger points?

[Freedom]

i replaced the points.

the car is really under power. when i am under load, going up a hill the car will not pull say at 60mph in 4th. i have to pump the accelerator so the car accelerates. wierd. i think it is a fuel issue. but i checked all of the connectors and they seem to be good.

i let the car warm up and drove it around but no luck it didnt improve. i only noticed good positive acceleration when i was pumping the gas (not full on full off, but just a little)

I have changed the fuel filter so i dont know what is going on with it.. the guy before me drove it all the time but told me the thing was running crappy.

[nebreitling]

ignition points or fuel injection trigger points?

i think vsg914 meant the latter. lots of variables here. certainly FI triggerpoints should be looked at. also remove and inspect the TPS (throttle position switch).

n

[TheCabinetmaker]

Hmm, have you set the dwell with a meter? Sounds like the points are closed.

[John]

If you believe it is a fuel problem, have you checked your fuel pressure? If you don't have one, go buy yourself a decent fuel pressure gauge and see what pressure you have. It is a simple test and only takes a minute. It will either show that you have a problem or that your problem is likely elsewhere. Your pressure should be about 26psi.

If you don't have 26psi, first check your fuel filter and make sure it isn't restricting flow to the pump. Then check all fuel lines making sure that they are not collapsed or kinked. If you still can't get enough pressure, it may be a bad pump or a bad pressure regulator. Pinch off the return line momentarily and see if you can get enough pressure. If so, your pressure regulator is bad or needs to be adjusted (I don't know if they are adjustable on 1.7 but they are on 2.0) Otherwise it could be the pump.

I hope this gives you some new ideas to look at. Hang in there and you will find what the problem is.

[garyh]

I had a similar problem. Turned out to be two clogged injectors.

Step one: Spend $20 on a good fuel pressure gauge.

Step two: Verify that the pressure is correct. 30 PSI IIRC, I'm way too lazy to look it up right now. (I do know that the Haynes manual has it right)

[rant]There's someone else on this board that is having problems that could be related to fuel pressure. Will he check it? Noooooooooooo.... He'd rather push his car off a bridge![/rant]

Here's a shade-tree way to check for clogged injectors without pulling them all and checking the pattern (which is the right way.): Bump the pressure up 4 to 6 PSI, and see if it gets dramatically better. If it does, get your Visa card out. And set your pressure back to spec.

If not, set your pressure back to spec, and hope that someone who knows what they're doing will read your post.

G.

[weird_looking_cactus]

haha sounds like my car when I had it running I just keep pouring gas right into the throtle body and got it up to like 6000to7000 rpms then I would have someone go hold the gas down. When the car is running take off each spark plug and see if it makes a difference cause I know my number 3 piston is way off timing. Then the car started to idle around 1500 but then I did something stupid and screwed up the ignition coil

[TheCabinetmaker]

fuel pressure=29psi. Sounds electrical to me.

[garyh]

(I don't know if they are adjustable on 1.7 but they are on 2.0)

Same part number.

Which reminds me. I promised someone a regulator (I'll recognize the name when I see it) but his emails keep winding up in my spam bin. If he's reading this, he should send to my -other- email address (which he knows.)

G.

[Freedom]

pulled the TPS it seemed okay i cleaned it out all seems to be good, but will look at it tomorrow.

i'll will check the pressure tomorrow and see whats going on

i have a set of crane electronic poins for a 009, will they work in my dist.. and ehat is the difference between ignition points and trigger points?


my hanes comes in tomorrow from checkers... they had to order it.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Fuel injection trigger points are in the lower part of the distributor. they control the pulse of the injectors. faulty or dirty injector points can cause the problems you are having. Tps needs to set with an ohm meter, but they can be set "close" without one.

[nebreitling]

yup, triggerpoints could cause your problems. pull the distributor, remove triggerpoints, look at them in terms of contact points and wear along distributor camshaft.

replace if the above looks bad. that said, mine looked quite good, yet replacing this part solved a major rough running issue that had just popped up almost out of no where.

[Freedom]

where can i get trigger points?... and also what should i set the tps at?

[nebreitling]

where can i get trigger points?... and also what should i set the tps at?

TPoints: online. you can get them cheap (~$110) if you shop around. or you can get a rebuilt distributor from your flaps with fresh triggerpoints installed (~$55). doesn't make sense, i know.

TPS: there's some directions at the pelican site for calibrating the TPS with an ohm meter. it's easy...

tps must be correctly calibrated if the car is going to run well. do that before the TP;s

[garyh]

fuel pressure=29psi. Sounds electrical to me.

I would still try bumping the pressure for -one- test.

It will make marginal injectors appear good (for a while)

And it's quick and easy to do.

G.

"It could be your distributor, it could be your coil" -- Tom Waits

[John]

I just had a strange notion and don't know if it would make a difference or not. I remember having my distributor rotor turned 180 degrees out when I first rebuilt mine and it was hard to time.

Have you tried swapping the injector connector plugs? I'm not sure if it would run that way, but I do know that the trigger points switches two groups of two so potentially the plugs could be swapped.

I don't agree about the Throttle Position Sensor. The car will actually run without one.

I would look at the trigger points and probably clean the contacts off with crocus cloth or some fine sandpaper or a points file. The trigger points are in a low current circuit and should last a very long time and should not pit like the ignition points do.


Just my random thoughts.....

[rhodyguy]

kris, do you have the plug wires on in the correct sequence? just one cyl (#3)doesn't make any sense. the timing is set off #1.

kevin

[Dave_Darling]

The Crane for the 009 distributor may or may not work in the stock distributor. The vacuum advance and retard mechanism in the stocker might interfere with the mounting for the Crane--I'm not certain.


It's time to get methodical about this. You need to lay out a plan and go through it in order. You'll probably wind up doing a lot of "extra" work, but most of it is stuff that will need doing sooner or later anyway.

First--check all of the electrical connections on the engine. Make sure they are plugged in to the right places. Make sure they are plugged in all the way. Make sure the connections are clean. (Radio Shack TV Tuner cleaner or some other contact cleaner is your friend.) Make sure that all the wires are pliable, none are cracked or broken.

Next, check all of the hoses on the engine--both fuel and vacuum. Make sure they are plugged into the correct places. Make sure they are not brittle or cracked or leaking at all.

Next, check the valve clearances. They should be 0.005" - 0.007" with the engine cold. If they are all 0, or tighter than 0, don't mess with them until you get back to us. If a few are out of spec, set them to spec.

Next, inspect your ignition system. Check all of the parts. Make sure the dwell and timing (or at least the points gap and the static timing) are correct. Inspect the plugs, make sure you are getting a decent spark. Make sure that the little "ground strap" inside the distributor is there, and is making good contact. If you can, verify that the timing advances with RPM, and also that it advances and retards when a vacuum is pulled on the appropriate fitting on the distributor dashpot. (If you can't do those, then don't stress. Come back to it later once you get the car running half-decent.)

Next, check the compression. If you can get the engine warmed up to do this, good. If not, it's not a huge deal--just remember that cold readings are not as accurate as warm readings so take them with a grain of salt.

Then check your fuel pressure. While the fuel pump is running, you should have 29 PSI in the high-pressure loop. (That's anything between the pump and the pressure regulator--which includes both fuel rails and the cold-start valve.)

Then start testing FI components. Tests for all of them can be found at: http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders .


The TPS is not necessary for the car to run. However, with it unplugged the idle may be a little "funny", and acceleration will suck rocks.

--DD

[Freedom]

well i adjusted the valves when i got the car, changed the oil. checked the plugs. i went through the distributor everything looked to be in good nik.


when i put the car back together it ran better i drove it to town.. 30 miles and down. about 3000ft in altitude, it seemed better but still needed me to pump the gas slightly to have it accelerate up the hills... one thing i noticed is that the accelerator doesnt open theTB all of the way, it seems that there is at least another 15 degrees left to open.

the car passed emissions and i drove it home, the car didnt get any better when it was hot.

so the dizzy made it run better but not super good, it not going to stop me from driving the thing!.