Engine running poorly, Update, all probs. solved |
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Engine running poorly, Update, all probs. solved |
geniusanthony |
Jun 14 2009, 06:56 PM
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#1
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I was on a drive two days ago and after 10 min on the freeway the engine note changes and it takes more pedal to maintain speed. I found an exit and visually checked that my timing hadn't slipped ( it hadn't). My number 1 plug was oily and black, all others were fine. I have since changed plugs and the engine will not accelerate as cleanly as it had before. I have yet to check the plugs again since a test ride. Before this problem it had been running great for a long time.
The engine is a 2.0L, 9350 cam, 40IDF, 009 dizzy. |
geniusanthony |
Jun 14 2009, 07:35 PM
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#2
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Any ideas of where I should look, I rechecked the plugs and they are normal.
Thanks |
degreeoff |
Jun 14 2009, 08:38 PM
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#3
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I like big butts and I can not lie! Group: Members Posts: 1,622 Joined: 9-February 03 From: Booowieeee MD (near DC) Member No.: 275 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
idle jets would be my guess pull em out and look for crap in there.
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geniusanthony |
Jun 14 2009, 11:27 PM
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#4
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
thanks guys, will check tomorrow.
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ericread |
Jun 15 2009, 08:22 AM
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#5
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The Viper Blue 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,177 Joined: 7-December 07 From: Irvine, CA (The OC) Member No.: 8,432 Region Association: Southern California |
"My number 1 plug was oily and black, all others were fine" "I rechecked the plugs and they are normal" I'm not sure I understand your two comments... However, you seemingly have an issue with cylinder #1. As a short cut, start your engine then remove the #1 spark plug wire (careful you don't electrocute yourself). If you don't get any change in engine noise, you have confirmed the #1 cylinder as the root of the problem. It is electrical, fuel or mechanical based. I would first check to ensure you are getting a spark to the #1 plug (easiest check). Since you've got carbs, and you're getting fuel to the other three cylinders, I would not suspect fuel delivery, however, you could have an issue with the cylinder #1 intake valve, so I would check all of your valve clearances. The third thing I'd try is a compression test for all four cylinders. Good luck! Eric Read |
Jake Raby |
Jun 15 2009, 08:34 AM
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#6
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
If #1 was oil you may have a ring issue on that cylinder.. Whats the history of the engine?
I see it uses my camshaft, did you use all my other valve train components as well? As Eric mentions, do a compression test and leak down test sooner rather than later to save yourself headaches on diagnosis on what could be a mechanical problem internally. |
Spoke |
Jun 15 2009, 09:01 AM
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#7
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,990 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
Are you running points or electronic ignition? I've upgraded my 914's to Pertronix mainly to get away from doing the dwell and burnt points.
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geniusanthony |
Jun 16 2009, 08:32 AM
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#8
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
RE: cylinder #1 I found a leak in the primary before the collector on a Patrick Motors header. The crack has been dressed and welded up.
The engine was built by me two years ago and aside from the negatives of a 009 dist. has run flawlessly. Yalvetrain is mostly stock. I have removed the jets 125===200==F7 and 55 idles all were clear of debris. Still using points, bosch blue, points had a tit and i filed smooth. The cap showed some oxidation and I replaced. Timing is -34 deg at 3500. As it stands now the plugs are clean but the lack of power is still present. I will look at the valves this evening per Erics rec'd |
geniusanthony |
Jun 22 2009, 07:06 AM
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#9
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I finally have had some time this weekend to get the car up and investigate further. The rocker shaft on #1 cylinder had lost its nuts and the rocker shaft was left lying inside the head. That's the good news, bad news is the washers are present though the nuts are completely missing.
Is there anywhere they could have gone in the rocker box? I have ran a magnet tool down the pushrod tubes and found no debris. |
Katmanken |
Jun 22 2009, 10:05 AM
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#10
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
There's only three ways out of the rocker area in a 2.0 head....
Through the opening created by removing the valve cover.. Down a pushrod tube... Out one of those vacuum ports.... I'd pull the rocker shafts and the pushrods and go diving down the pushrod tubes with a magnet on a stick. Go all the way to the lifters, there isn't any other place to go that way. Or, pull the pushrod tubes too and go magnet diving in the lifter bores to make sure they aren't near the lifters... No joy? Check the vaccuum system venting from the top of the heads til you find them. Still no joy? Better dissasemble the motor until you find them or you will hear it go BOOM when one of them gets where you don't want it. |
geniusanthony |
Jun 22 2009, 11:30 AM
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#11
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Thought so, I do not have vented covers, the valve covers have been on since.. I notice that the inner most pushrod (cyl #1) will stick out more than the outside rod.. 1 is at TDC with flywheel timing mark up and piston at TDC.. i may be 360 out though perhaps...
Thanks thus far. |
geniusanthony |
Jun 22 2009, 04:12 PM
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#12
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Seems me an chef had similar issues simultaneously, Luckily we appear to have both found the bits simultaneously. Mine were in the #2 pushrod tube.
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nycchef |
Jun 22 2009, 04:17 PM
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#13
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mechanical moron Group: Members Posts: 952 Joined: 28-November 05 From: new york city n.y. Member No.: 5,202 Region Association: None |
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Jake Raby |
Jun 22 2009, 06:58 PM
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#14
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Q:Why did the fasteners come loose???
A: Because they were not properly torqued... They never loosen otherwise. Thats two instances today where valve train components came loose and could have wiped out engines.. You guys wouldn't get very far working on aircraft. |
76-914 |
Jun 22 2009, 07:31 PM
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#15
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,507 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California |
Q:Why did the fasteners come loose??? A: Because they were not properly torqued... They never loosen otherwise. Thats two instances today where valve train components came loose and could have wiped out engines.. You guys wouldn't get very far working on aircraft. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) especially those case halfs!several complete torque sequences before completion. |
geniusanthony |
Jun 24 2009, 10:40 PM
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#16
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Its a brand new "Chrome-sicle" Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 12-December 05 From: Alexandria,VA Member No.: 5,266 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
After recovering the missing hardware and putting on new, I looked at the old nuts and saw that they were worn/damaged to have likely caused the failure. 38 year old hardware does have the propensity to not function as would be expected.
In the end, through a journey of checking and rechecking related systems, cleaning and balancing carbs and linkages, rebrazing/repairing a throttle pedal, new cable while there and cleaned and serviced ignition, re-setting all valves.... somewhere along the line it is all right and I really think this is the best she's run. Thnks for the advice guys. |
EdwardBlume |
Jun 24 2009, 11:16 PM
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#17
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California |
I love happy endings... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
Nice Work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) |
Cap'n Krusty |
Jun 24 2009, 11:33 PM
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#18
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
There's only three ways out of the rocker area in a 2.0 head.... Through the opening created by removing the valve cover.. Down a pushrod tube... Out one of those vacuum ports.... I'd pull the rocker shafts and the pushrods and go diving down the pushrod tubes with a magnet on a stick. Go all the way to the lifters, there isn't any other place to go that way. Or, pull the pushrod tubes too and go magnet diving in the lifter bores to make sure they aren't near the lifters... No joy? Check the vaccuum system venting from the top of the heads til you find them. Still no joy? Better dissasemble the motor until you find them or you will hear it go BOOM when one of them gets where you don't want it. The cylinder head vents are NOT part of "the vacuum system" They're vents, and are NOT under any sort of vacuum. They can safely be vented to atmosphere without affecting the way the engine runs. the Cap'n |
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