LS1 vs Scooby Options

[HUBBSTER]

Conversion guys

what are the pros & cons of the LS1 vs the Scooby ?

I'm leaning towards the LS1 or LS3 bcus I like American and naturally aspirated

Which engine/trans has the best power to weight ratio ?

Thanks

[tat2dphreak]

I think one thing that helps the suby is the price.. I've heard people on these boards get the engine for under $500! that's CHEAP!

if those were the choices I had between, I'd probably also go suby, cheaper, and more suitable for our transmissions. plus I think it looks more stock when installed.

I think the weight difference between an LS1 and suby is relatively minimal, and any weight you save on the block is probably added back elsewhere. I'm not sure what an aluminum block v8 weighs, I think someone stated once tho, that a standard v8 was about 200 lbs heavier than a type 4, IIRC.

[Zundfolge]

I've vacillated back and forth on this for some time.

Seems to me, unless you're putting a hot STI Turbo charged Subie motor in, it makes more sense to put a big bore Type IV motor in instead.

V8 (especially the LS motors) have a much higher potential for HP, but that creates a lot of other work that needs to be done.


The big downside for either system is all the hacking up of the car you have to do to water cool it. So I guess for now (I'll probably change my mind back and forth a dozen times before anyone replies to this) I'd say if you're going to go water cooled and you have the money, go LS1, but if you want to stick with a 4 stay with air cooled and get an overbuilt (Raby?) Type IV instead of the Suby.

But again, I'll go look at the anklebiter thread and change my mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[rick 918-S]

You should just do what Bill did and install an LS6. Of course you will need to go with the 930 box to hold up to the 650+ HP and massive torque produced, Big axles, cage, Big flares, big tires to hook the asphalt, big brakes to compensate for the added unsprung weight and contact patch, big anti-sway bars to correct the top heavy condition caused by the V8, etc, etc....

A suby on the hand has the same low center of gravity, the RPMs are about the same as the type IV so no gearing issues, the HP and torque are within the range of the transaxles ability to handle abuse and torque. It would require a smaller cooling system. Unless you have to have 500+ hp I would go with the suby.

I would be willing to say a high percentage of the guys here that have done conversions would be very happy with a 2.0 type IV.

These cars are canyon carvers not dragsters. In my opinion, the more hp you add the less like a 914 the car becomes. I think if I wouldn't have been involved with racing or had some twisty roads around here to really learn how to drive an 80 hp mid-engine sports car I would likely have had second thoughts about converting my car to a V8.

On second thought....... nevermind...

[jimkelly]

i'm sold - see the video

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=100792

[HUBBSTER]

These cars are canyon carvers not dragsters. In my opinion, the more hp you add the less like a 914 the car becomes. I think if I would have been involved with racing or had some twisty roads around here to really learn how to drive an 80 hp mid-engine sports car I would likely have had second thoughts about converting my car to a V8.

As you can tell from my avatar, I rather like power (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Carving is fun too but exploding out of a corner is priceless

[tat2dphreak]

the difference is pulling G's IN the corner, not having to stomp on it out of the corner... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I just had my t4 rebuilt, estimated 140hp. and it's freaky quick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) it frankly just doesn't take much to push these cars... that's why I think a good SUBY would be perfect if you MUST pump water...

or you can go purist and get a 3.2 /6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ferg]

LS series v8 all the way.

[SLITS]

Mazda 13B Rotary with an IMSA port job.

[jimtab]

Stock 2.0.....it keeps me out of jail......

[Rand]

You can't really know which YOU would like most until YOU experience each and decide for yourself. For me, depending on how I'm going to drive it, a 2270 4, 3.6 six, or LS1 water cooled without question.

I love a good suby conversion, without a doubt. But there's nothing like a v8, and when you can get the weight down to that close to the suby.... mmm, tasty. You HAVE to experience it yourself.

A n/a v8 vs a turbo suby... Which will last longer and be cheaper to rebuild when pushing the performance way past 300 hp/tq? SBC.

Rotary is an awesome fit, won't abuse the tranny, is easy to get 200+hp... But when an LS1 can get better mileage with 300+ hp and more importantly TORQUE (consider the tranny)... And you experience the difference of the sound, pull, feel, pure satisfaction that goes with having a v8 under there.... Hmm, did I mention you need to experience it yourself before you can answer this question for you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rotary'14]

Mazda 13B Rotary with an IMSA port job.

I like your way of thinking grouchy ol' man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

-Rob

[marks914]

It depends on how much power you "need" After looking at both over at Renegade, I would have to say that the LS is easier to install. The Suby is more in tune with the 914 theme, but really, best bang for the buck would be a regular old SBC. 283-302-327. Good power, high revvers, cheap, easy to work on.
My car has a Chevy 302, plenty of power (mid 400s) revs like crazy and with the taller gears, is very driveable on the street and highway.

Mark

[zymurgist]

The big downside for either system is all the hacking up of the car you have to do to water cool it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I like 2 large trunks. Kind of a unique feature of the 914.

[jimkelly]

what are your emissions rules in FL?

in DE, must test 1968 and newer : ((

[HUBBSTER]

the difference is pulling G's IN the corner, not having to stomp on it out of the corner... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like pulling G's in the corner on power and steady power out

My car has a Chevy 302, plenty of power (mid 400s) revs like crazy and with the taller gears, is very driveable on the street and highway.

Mark

What trans are you using ?

[HUBBSTER]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I like 2 large trunks. Kind of a unique feature of the 914.

Not concerned w the trunks. I'll use it for the track and Hwy cruising

what are your emissions rules in FL?

I love FL, No emmisions and no state income tax

[DBCooper]

The big downside for either system is all the hacking up of the car you have to do to water cool it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I like 2 large trunks. Kind of a unique feature of the 914.

Actually there's not much hacking involved. People say this, but it's not a real factor. For the Subaru conversion it's removing parts of three panels in the front trunk. If you ever wanted to go back to aircooled, which I don't think anyone ever has, any body man could replace those easily, with no more trace of damage to the car than you'd get from simple rust repair or a re-spray. And you actually still have most of the front trunk. I don't use the trunks myself, my car's more for weekend fun, kind of like a motorcycle.

I had all the parts for a SBC conversion when a friend suggested the Subaru. The only hesitation I'd had about the V8 was the weight and carrying it high, what changes that would make to handling, and what I'd need to do to the suspension to get everything back in harmony. The Subaru solved all that. Now the car is like the old 2 liter but with more modern noises coming out of the back and three times the horsepower. I don't know enough about the LS1 conversion to compare, but it's a thumbs up for the Subaru.

[charliew]

I have a 914, it is still a bone stock 1.8 75 with a really good tranny. I don't like it much, I think it is a nice slow little car that will fly around corners at whatever speed it will ever get up to. I don't think it will go 110. My son hot rods a sti, I have lots of suby hot rod parts to play with so it will be a suby motor and tranny just because I can. I also have hot rodded a 69 mach 1 from 69-76 and a 69 camaro from 69-85 along with 4x4's. There is no comparison between a 55-96 sbc and a lsi. They are not similiar. A vortec and lt1-lt4 sbc is pretty good but just start with a lsi-ls6 aluminum motor. The problem with the ls1-6 is the tranny and axles- brakes and wheels will cost as much as the motor and you will not be able to enjoy dogging it because it will be like a missle. Where can you drive 170? It's like a crotch rocket, you can't see far enough down the road to see what the higher gears will do. 140 in a 914/suby is fast enough to get in enough trouble for me. My son's sti was a honest 150mph car stock so you can see the possibilities of a 2100 lb 320-330hp suby/914 (280-300hp 2.5 at the wheels) without the crazyness of the lowrpm torque of the ls1.

By all means though whatever floats your boat we all will follow along and see how you do, Enjoy yourself but try to develop a budget for each style you will build. I my opinion there are no cheaply built nicely detailed hotrods.

Wait till suby comes out with a direct injection flat6 na motor and sequential tranny.

[rick 918-S]

These cars are canyon carvers not dragsters. In my opinion, the more hp you add the less like a 914 the car becomes. I think if I would have been involved with racing or had some twisty roads around here to really learn how to drive an 80 hp mid-engine sports car I would likely have had second thoughts about converting my car to a V8.

As you can tell from my avatar, I rather like power (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Carving is fun too but exploding out of a corner is priceless

Then again you could always keep it all Porsche... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/assimilate.gif)



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)