D-Jet Troubleshooting, Still no start Options

[Vysoc]

1975 - 2.0 D-Jet Stock Fuel Injection
Recently fitted with 73 GA 2.0 engine all fuel injection components are from the 75.

We have everything installed, fuel pressure through the lines is correct 28PSI, we do not seem to be receiving a signal on crank to the cold start valve, where does this signal originate?
We are also not receiving a signal to fuel injectors during cranking?
When we manually prime the plenum we can hear the injectors clicking but when we turn the key to the on position, we here the fuel pump prime but do not hear the injectors click?

At this point the engine wants to fire but will not, obviously there is not enough fuel getting to the intake?

Signal at the coil seems to be correct.

What next?

Thanks,

Vysoc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Bleyseng]

Do the injectors spray fuel? Pull one and stick it in a glass jar and have a friend turn over the engine AFTER pull the coil to dizzy wire.

Do you have spark? After putting the injector back together, grab a extra plug and pull of spark plug connector off a plug and connect it to the extra plug. Using a set of insulated pliers to grab it, ground it to the engine while a friend turns over the engine. You should have a nice bright spark on the plug.

The CSV should only work at 42F and under so depending on the temp it will or won't work.

[detoxcowboy]

I would test for an electrical signal at the injectors rather than rely on hearing them, maybe I am deaf but I cannot hear those things half the time.. Or take them out and test them in jars.. belew are 2 good links that if you know about already excuse me if not they are excellent for understanding and trouble shooting the djet and its components.. Your injectors are wired to the FI Harness which begins at your ECU...

*** don't worry about the cold start valve, It gets its signal from the thermo time switch of which they all are factory calibrated at 5-15 degress celcius, depending on the year/part NO. (at or below freezing 32 deg. F). Of course unless your actaully at those temps..

IS YOUR CYLINDER HEAD TEMP SENSOR CONNECTED?

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm
http://rennlist.com/techarticles/djetronicfuel.htm

[detoxcowboy]

delete,, need coffee.. early 2nd post accident.

[76-914]

You state "it wants to fire". Have you dumped some gas down the throttle body to see if it does start? Do you hear the fuel pump kick on when the ign switch is turned to the on position?

[pbanders]

Do the injectors spray fuel? Pull one and stick it in a glass jar and have a friend turn over the engine AFTER pull the coil to dizzy wire.

Do you have spark? After putting the injector back together, grab a extra plug and pull of spark plug connector off a plug and connect it to the extra plug. Using a set of insulated pliers to grab it, ground it to the engine while a friend turns over the engine. You should have a nice bright spark on the plug.

The CSV should only work at 42F and under so depending on the temp it will or won't work.

Some thermo switches and thermo-time switches (which determine if the CSV will turn on) don't switch until less than 32 deg. F. I don't think mine's been cold enough to operate for 20 years! :-)

Like Geoff says, first make sure you're getting spark.

When you turn the key, the fuel pump runs for ~3 seconds to pressurize the fuel line. The injectors don't fire until you start cranking. If you want to see if you're getting signal to the injectors, buy a cheap "noid" light from your local auto parts store. You pull the cable going to an injector and plug in the noid light. When you crank, you should see it flashing.

Spraying in some starting fluid will also help determine where your problem is.

[zymurgist]

Check the connection to the injector points (on the distributor). The injectors can buzz if you work the throttle (startup injection) but not function to keep the engine running if this connection is open. I had this happen... the engine would run when I shot ether down the throttle body, but it would not keep running. I reconnected the injector points and voila! It started and ran just fine.

[Vysoc]

We are receiving spark at the Injectors as we did take one out and it would spray into a can. We also got sensor to light up during crank. Could the problem be coming from a faulty Vacuum Pressure Sensor? Is there a way to test this item?

Thanks,

Vysoc

[detoxcowboy]

We are receiving spark at the Injectors as we did take one out and it would spray into a can. We also got sensor to light up during crank. Could the problem be coming from a faulty Vacuum Pressure Sensor? Is there a way to test this item?

Thanks,

Vysoc

testing the mps electrically is within the links I pasted above, hold pressure ect.. click around within the links covers alot of questions, and test to perform,,

[swl]

So it sounds like you have reasonably good fuel delivery - confirmed by the squirt in a can experiment. Can we assume you have good spark? (what do the plugs look like after cranking?)

If we assume fuel and spark next up on the list should be timing.

After that air/fuel mixture. Rich is likely the CHT. Lean is likely vacuum lines off/leaking.

[TheCabinetmaker]

"At this point the engine wants to fire but will not, "

If you have fuel at the injectors, and spark at the plugs, ignintion timing is possibly culprit. Timing is way off, or plug wires are routed wrong. Can you show us a pic of the distributor?

Oh yeah, Valves been adjusted?

[Root_Werks]

If the fuel lines are hooked up backwards it'll also try to fire, but won't. Double check them all the way from the tunel (size) and follow them back up. Just a good double check.

[Bleyseng]

Do the injectors spray fuel? Pull one and stick it in a glass jar and have a friend turn over the engine AFTER pull the coil to dizzy wire.

Do you have spark? After putting the injector back together, grab a extra plug and pull of spark plug connector off a plug and connect it to the extra plug. Using a set of insulated pliers to grab it, ground it to the engine while a friend turns over the engine. You should have a nice bright spark on the plug.

The CSV should only work at 42F and under so depending on the temp it will or won't work.

Some thermo switches and thermo-time switches (which determine if the CSV will turn on) don't switch until less than 32 deg. F. I don't think mine's been cold enough to operate for 20 years! :-)

Like Geoff says, first make sure you're getting spark.

When you turn the key, the fuel pump runs for ~3 seconds to pressurize the fuel line. The injectors don't fire until you start cranking. If you want to see if you're getting signal to the injectors, buy a cheap "noid" light from your local auto parts store. You pull the cable going to an injector and plug in the noid light. When you crank, you should see it flashing.

Spraying in some starting fluid will also help determine where your problem is.

Got down to 17F in Seattle this winter and I had to look inside the plenum just to see if the CSV was working. Yep, and the 914 fires right up at that cold temp...Thank God I have the heating system working great!

[Vysoc]

Thanks for all the great information......tomorrow is going to be the day we wake this sleeping beauty. 12 years of slumber, I think the timing is WAY OFF, hopefully that and getting all vacuum hoses secured will get us going.

*-Fuel lines are correct supply spews fuel when fuel pump cycles.
*-Valves have been adjusted.
*-Will look at the plugs.
*-Timing could definitely be a problem?
*-Will also check plug wire routing.
*-We did also do away with the points and set up the electronic.


tomorrow,

Vysoc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Rod]

Good luck, I hope it goes!

I'm not sure if dumping the points in favour of electronics on a not yet running engine is a wise move though... I'd stick with points personally.

[Vysoc]

TODAY is NOT the day!!!

Thanks Detoxcowboy for the links to check the MPS.

Checked the Ohms / resistance between terminals 7 to 15 was 91 should be 90 OK, resistance from terminals 8 to 10 = OL, no reading there's the problem.

OK what are my options now are these units repairable? and how much would I be looking at or are there other options?

Thanks again, more good news the rear calipers are frozen like a Minnesota Lake....big surprise.

Vysoc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[SLITS]

Look for a used, but good 049 or maybe an 043 (have to check compatibility).

[pbanders]

TODAY is NOT the day!!!

Thanks Detoxcowboy for the links to check the MPS.

Checked the Ohms / resistance between terminals 7 to 15 was 91 should be 90 OK, resistance from terminals 8 to 10 = OL, no reading there's the problem.

Very unusual to see an open coil in the MPS, primary or secondary. Get a replacement either from a site member of go hunting on eBay.

[Dave_Darling]

Or look through Brad's site about the internals of the MPS, and open yours up. You might be able to fix whatever is wrong in there... Maybe?

--DD

[pbanders]

Or look through Brad's site about the internals of the MPS, and open yours up. You might be able to fix whatever is wrong in there... Maybe?

--DD

It's possible, but he'll need to have a way to calibrate it when he's done. Maybe he could sent it to Jeff Bowlsby? He can do the cal for a fee.