 Longs Reinforcement Questions, I don't understand the different kits or options yet |
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| Corkus |
 Jul 27 2010, 12:01 PM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 14-June 10 From: N. Calif & S. AZ Member No.: 11,834 Region Association: None  |
Please tell me about the different ways to reinforce the longs on the 914. My car is on the rack and it is time to reinforce this area and things are moving too fast for me to keep up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I have seen the Engman Inner Long Reinforcement kit and the Tangerine Racing Door Sills kit. I think I saw a third kit that reinforced the footwells at the same time as the longs but I can't find that kit again. I'm confused about the different kits, the terms that describe the longs and the different ways to reinforce this part of the car. Please clue me in if you know. I'm not even sure what the difference is between "Longs" and "Inner Longs", if there is any. So, you can assume I know nothing here. Any help is appreciated. Thanks all. |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| McMark |
Jul 27 2010, 12:07 PM
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#2
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
The part you linked to for Tangerine Racing Door Sill kits are not parts of the structure of the car.
The long is a box, or square tube. It was assembled from two C shaped metal stampings. The Engman inner long kit, welds onto the inner C section. |
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| Corkus |
Jul 27 2010, 01:02 PM
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#3
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 14-June 10 From: N. Calif & S. AZ Member No.: 11,834 Region Association: None |
Thanks Mark.
So when people talk about strengthening the longs, they are usually talking about adding strength to the inner longs like with the Engman kit. Are there other options people choose short of a roll cage or is it just about always the Engman kit? Did I see a kit that reinforced the footwells along with the longs? |
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| Root_Werks |
Jul 27 2010, 01:10 PM
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#4
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,456 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest 
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The weakest area of the long is about were the E-brake indentation is located given the whole car is free of rustiuos-cancer.
The Engman inner kit is about the best you can do to any 914 without doing a cage of some type. Search for Engman kit here, there is a couple of really good threads on the install. I've done a few myself. Makes a huge difference in the car. |
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| Grelber |
Jul 27 2010, 02:57 PM
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#5
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Insert favorite Don Rickles joke here. Group: Members Posts: 690 Joined: 30-May 06 From: McKinney, Texas Member No.: 6,107 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I have the Brad Mayeur (914ltd) outer long reinforcement kit , and the Rich Johnson rear reinforcement kit installed, and am very happy with both.
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| Corkus |
Jul 27 2010, 10:25 PM
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#6
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 14-June 10 From: N. Calif & S. AZ Member No.: 11,834 Region Association: None |
OK, so now I'm getting somewhere. These are innner longs redone with the Engman kit.
 And these are outer longs done with Brad Mayeur's kit  I'll have to look for the Rich Johnson Rear Reinforcement kit. Don't know about that yet. I'm thinking of going with both the Engman and Mayeur kits. |
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| siverson |
Jul 27 2010, 10:36 PM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,451 Joined: 5-May 03 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 654 Region Association: Southern California 
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> I'm thinking of going with both the Engman and Mayeur kits.
That's a bad idea. I have the Mayeur kit on my car (it was pre Engman) and it's nice, and very strong, but VERY heavy. If I was to do it again I'd try the Engman kit just because I've heard so many good things (and it may be lighter). -Steve |
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| Elliot Cannon |
Jul 27 2010, 11:38 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Retired Members Posts: 8,487 Joined: 29-December 06 From: Paso Robles Ca. (Central coast) Member No.: 7,407 Region Association: None 
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Go with the Engman kit. When you do, drill the holes bigger. (I drilled mine out to 5/8 inch). Makes for a stronger bond.
Attached thumbnail(s)  
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| bugsy0 |
Jul 28 2010, 09:20 AM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 191 Joined: 26-July 06 Member No.: 6,508 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 27 2010, 11:38 PM)  Go with the Engman kit. When you do, drill the holes bigger. (I drilled mine out to 5/8 inch). Makes for a stronger bond. I like the idea of larger holes - stronger bond for sure. What do you coat the steel with on the mating surfaces of the original long and the new layer? I wonder about moisture between the two layers of steel causing problems. |
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| Bartlett 914 |
Jul 28 2010, 09:30 AM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,216 Joined: 30-August 05 From: South Elgin IL Member No.: 4,707 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I am sure the Engman kit is very good but the Brad Mayeur kit does a better job. First it is heaver and stronger. Second, it better connects the passenger compartment with the rear of the car. I have a junk car I will cut up later that has the Brad Mayeur kit. The longs are totally trash. The Hell Hole is a canyon. The door gaps do NOT move when lifting the car. The frame is stronger than my daily driver. Those door gaps move more than I like when lifting the car.
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| IronHillRestorations |
Jul 28 2010, 11:56 AM
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#11
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,768 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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Brad Mayeur's kit reinforces the outer suspension mounts, and the Engman kit does not. If your car has any corrosion on the outer rear portion of the long, then I'd go for both kits.
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| cstone12 |
Jul 29 2010, 11:32 AM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 20-February 07 From: Cleveland Member No.: 7,550 |
QUOTE(bugsy0 @ Jul 28 2010, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 27 2010, 11:38 PM) Go with the Engman kit. When you do, drill the holes bigger. (I drilled mine out to 5/8 inch). Makes for a stronger bond. I like the idea of larger holes - stronger bond for sure. What do you coat the steel with on the mating surfaces of the original long and the new layer? I wonder about moisture between the two layers of steel causing problems. I would like to know the answer to this too, anyone? |
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| VaccaRabite |
Jul 29 2010, 12:38 PM
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#13
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,584 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(cstone12 @ Jul 29 2010, 12:32 PM) QUOTE(bugsy0 @ Jul 28 2010, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 27 2010, 11:38 PM) Go with the Engman kit. When you do, drill the holes bigger. (I drilled mine out to 5/8 inch). Makes for a stronger bond. I like the idea of larger holes - stronger bond for sure. What do you coat the steel with on the mating surfaces of the original long and the new layer? I wonder about moisture between the two layers of steel causing problems. I would like to know the answer to this too, anyone? Weld through primer. Though many people still buff off the primer around where they are welding, as it makes for cleaner, easier welds. Zach |
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| nsyr |
Jul 29 2010, 12:40 PM
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#14
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Because I Can Group: Members Posts: 314 Joined: 16-May 04 From: Tampa, FL Member No.: 2,073 |
QUOTE(cstone12 @ Jul 29 2010, 01:32 PM) QUOTE(bugsy0 @ Jul 28 2010, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 27 2010, 11:38 PM) Go with the Engman kit. When you do, drill the holes bigger. (I drilled mine out to 5/8 inch). Makes for a stronger bond. I like the idea of larger holes - stronger bond for sure. What do you coat the steel with on the mating surfaces of the original long and the new layer? I wonder about moisture between the two layers of steel causing problems. I would like to know the answer to this too, anyone? weldable primer example: http://search.eastwood.com/search?w=weldab...Q&ts=custom |
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| charliew |
Aug 10 2010, 06:12 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,363 Joined: 31-July 07 From: Crawford, TX. Member No.: 7,958 |
I know this is about stiffening kits but hopefully not about covering up rusted longs. I haven't seen the mayer kit in person and it may be good. I am not a fan of covering up rusted out body panels that are the structure and strength of a unibody car. Replace the rusted out parts then put the stiffening kits on to make the tub stronger than it was to begin with. Take pictures of the repair to show it was done correctly and the rusted out areas were not just covered up. When you buy a rusted tub and start pricing repair panels and the labor to put them on correctly, you will quickly realize that a rust free tub is worth a lot.
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| d914 |
Aug 10 2010, 08:45 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,337 Joined: 12-July 03 From: Atlanta, ga Member No.: 904 Region Association: South East States |
throw tagerine racing back into the picture w its rear console kit, I did the engman thing and the rear console and suspension ear thing.. if wider tires are in the offing reinforcing the suspension ear and the rear console should prevent tearing it up..
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| EdwardBlume |
Aug 10 2010, 09:13 PM
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#17
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
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Doesn't it all depend on what you use it for, or am I a fool for not installing an engman kit when my car was in pieces?
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| cstone12 |
Aug 10 2010, 09:29 PM
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#18
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 20-February 07 From: Cleveland Member No.: 7,550 |
What about the ClamShells? Are those a good option?
Link here->Rocker Clamshell |
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| Justinp71 |
Aug 10 2010, 10:32 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,597 Joined: 11-October 04 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 2,922 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Bartlett 914 @ Jul 28 2010, 08:30 AM) I am sure the Engman kit is very good but the Brad Mayeur kit does a better job. First it is heaver and stronger. Second, it better connects the passenger compartment with the rear of the car. I have a junk car I will cut up later that has the Brad Mayeur kit. The longs are totally trash. The Hell Hole is a canyon. The door gaps do NOT move when lifting the car. The frame is stronger than my daily driver. Those door gaps move more than I like when lifting the car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I like the brad meyeur kit because it is stronger and it ties the rear trailing arm up to the very front of the rocker, so it strengthens the rear area more. It only weighs 11 more lbs than the engman kit... |
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| peteyd |
Aug 11 2010, 10:46 AM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 729 Joined: 27-March 08 From: Elora, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 8,858 Region Association: Canada |
Restoration design also has a outer longitudinal reinforcement piece as well. WE call it the frame stiffener. Fairly easy to install, and adds quite a bit of rigidity. Got one installed on my car.
http://www.restoration-design.com/installation_ss346.htm Pete |
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