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> Misdiagnosed exhaust leak, Terminal head gasket failure!
HAM Inc
post Nov 22 2010, 01:32 PM
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Another thread got me thinking about a customer I had some time ago with a 2.0
He thought he was driving around with an exhaust leak. Much effort was put into fixing the problem before it dawned on him that this was more than an exhaust leak.

A perfect example of why we hate head gaskets on these engines! This head was toast and went to the scrap pile!

And it is another example of the need to do a compression test the minute you develop an exhaust leak. Even if you don't have head gaskets!


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jsayre914
post Nov 22 2010, 05:54 PM
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Speed Up !!!
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

OMG that dosnt look good. What happend to the jug side??
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bandjoey
post Nov 22 2010, 05:59 PM
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That's Terminal! Was there a loud leak or a slowly developed one that just exploded?
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Jake Raby
post Nov 22 2010, 07:50 PM
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Fellas, thats typical damage from a blown head gasket.. The combustion is like a cutting torch at the cylinder head.

I have seen MUCH worse than that.. See what happens when someone runs 8 month old race gas in an engine with near 13:1 CR on the track.. Its nasty!
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charliew
post Nov 22 2010, 11:03 PM
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I've seen cast iron blocks cut between the cylinders from blown headgaskets.
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HAM Inc
post Nov 23 2010, 08:49 AM
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See what happens when someone runs 8 month old race gas in an engine with near 13:1 CR on the track.. Its nasty!


That was an example of a failure that did not have a head gasket. And it only took about a lap and a half. And no, it was not our race team. We know better than to race with old gas!

Failures of this kind are waaaaay more likely to happen with a head gasket, but can happen when no head gasket is used.

I have been harping a lot on the need to deck cases when rebuilding engines and I'm going to do it here again, as the uneven cylinder loading caused by warped and sagging case spigots surely increases the chances of head seal failure.
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Cap'n Krusty
post Nov 23 2010, 09:48 AM
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Head gasket or no head gasket, the REAL reason the damage is as bad as it is is stupidity on the part of the driver, and you can't fix that.

The Cap'n
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Jake Raby
post Nov 23 2010, 10:38 AM
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A gasket thats not there, can't fail.. This failure occurs much more frequently with engines that retain the head gaskets..

Hence the VW Bulletin to omit them released in the 80s.
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Brett W
post Nov 23 2010, 10:42 AM
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You can already see the questionable ability of the owner/mechanic, by the massive quantity of RED RTV on the pushrod tubes. Idiot.
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HAM Inc
post Nov 23 2010, 10:44 AM
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Head gasket or no head gasket, the REAL reason the damage is as bad as it is is stupidity on the part of the driver, and you can't fix that.


Amen! It's remarkable how many ignored warning signs cars hand out that eventually bite the owner in the ass!
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Mark Henry
post Nov 23 2010, 10:53 AM
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I had a head gasket go on an engine I built from used parts, had to use gaskets as someone over flycut the heads. It made a definite squeaking noise that was different from an exhaust leak. Engine out and turning by hand you could hear it very clearly. Replaced it with better heads and no gaskets and the problem was solved.
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Jake Raby
post Nov 23 2010, 12:06 PM
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A poor mans compression test is something EVERY TIV enthusiast should understand.. Every time I start any engine I perform one. When one cylinder is down on compression, it can be noted a mile away.
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Drums66
post Nov 23 2010, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE(Brett W @ Nov 23 2010, 08:42 AM) *

You can already see the questionable ability of the owner/mechanic, by the massive quantity of RED RTV on the pushrod tubes. Idiot.
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Mike D.
post Nov 23 2010, 07:45 PM
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OK, It runs now, and pretty good too!
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OK, but what about the cyl. to head gasket in early 6 motors. I had one let go on a 2.0 6. It was a PITA to source just one. But I replaced it and all was good.
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7275914911
post Nov 23 2010, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 23 2010, 01:06 PM) *

A poor mans compression test is something EVERY TIV enthusiast should understand..



Jake, Len, Mark or somebody... help me UNDERSTAND.

Ken
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Cap'n Krusty
post Nov 23 2010, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 23 2010, 08:38 AM) *

A gasket thats not there, can't fail.. This failure occurs much more frequently with engines that retain the head gaskets..

Hence the VW Bulletin to omit them released in the 80s.


Come on, Jake. Sure there's a bulletin, but (IIRC) it goes with the head redesign, and it refers only to VW T2s. Leaving that part out diminishes the point you're trying to make. Not that I think your point is wrong ..............

The Cap'n
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Jake Raby
post Nov 23 2010, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Nov 23 2010, 07:11 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 23 2010, 08:38 AM) *

A gasket thats not there, can't fail.. This failure occurs much more frequently with engines that retain the head gaskets..

Hence the VW Bulletin to omit them released in the 80s.


Come on, Jake. Sure there's a bulletin, but (IIRC) it goes with the head redesign, and it refers only to VW T2s. Leaving that part out diminishes the point you're trying to make. Not that I think your point is wrong ..............

The Cap'n


Thats probably because thats the only vehicle that was still being produced with the Type 4 engine in 1981..

The head redesign was done to eliminate the head gasket but retain the same deck height, cylinder length and chamber volume as the previous engines that used the gaskets.

Either way, the gaskets are a lame excuse for a gasket, if you insist on using a gasket, at least use a substantial material, not folded pieces of aluminum..

I have a box full of these things, no less than 3,000 of them.. if someone wants to pay the shipping they can HAVE them!
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HAM Inc
post Nov 24 2010, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE
A poor mans compression test is something EVERY TIV enthusiast should understand.. Every time I start any engine I perform one. When one cylinder is down on compression, it can be noted a mile away.

QUOTE
Jake, Len, Mark or somebody... help me UNDERSTAND


What Jake is referring to is developing a keen sense of the tonal change as the engine is turning over on the starter. If one or more cylinders is off the engine won' t turn over with a steady pulse.

Jake demonstrated this ability recently when our F-Prod car was on the chassis dyno. He was convinced that we had a low cylinder based on the sound on the starter. A compression test was performed and what we found was actually a high cylinder. A valve adjustment followed and order was restored.

The point is to pay attention to the signals the engine is sending, even when it is just on the starter.
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Kraftwerk
post Nov 24 2010, 11:59 AM
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O.P. might be referring to me.


WANT TO BUY 1 GOOD Cylinder for a 1.7 engine...

The gasket got sucked in, the #2 cylinder did a little dance, pulled some studs..toast. Now I need a new cylinder..or a good clean used one.
Show me what you got.. Near the greater NY/NJ/PA/CT- NE area would be a plus..
Previous owner said it was an "exhaust gasket leak but that was wishful thinking/ misunderstanding/deception. pick one.
Need it ASAP. I want to drive a bit before the 1st snow, air cooled cars love the cold weather.

Help a brother out.

Thanks
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