Gluing body panels, Is this ridiculously stupid idea? Options

[mikea100]

I recently caught “Speedmakers” on Speed channel. It showed Aston Martin factory and how they glue body panels, they went on to say that it creates stronger bond than welding. Has anybody tried gluing any panels. I was thinking about using some high strength epoxy and gluing Engman inner long kit, it seems as a good candidate as the pieces are flat and fit flush. What do you guys think?

[r_towle]

read and learn all about the adhesives...
Its pretty common to use panel adhesive for non structural panels...most cars are made that way nowadays.

For structural, I would not do it, but it might work with the right adhesive.

Do some learning on 3M's website....

Rich

[sww914]

Have you ever seen a Ford taurus driving around with no quarter panels? They're all glued on, but in perfect conditions. You must duplicate those conditions and that epoxy has no strength with a large gap.

[jim912928]

this will be an interesting discussion. The body shop that did my 911 and 914 work (they turned my 911SC into a Widebody using Porsche metal parts and welded everything as the factory did) would like to use adhesives when I talked to them about putting the flares on my 914. He says it will be as strong or stronger then welding with no distorting of the metal from heat (he's used to adhesives as it's a corvette restoration shop).

[02loftsmoor a 914 newbe]

I work at Peterbilt. serveral truck models are glued together, two part glue that is very strong. holds up on a Class 8 truck

[mikea100]

I followed Rich’s advise and did a quick research on 3M website. I think that if they glue box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides, then it’s pretty safe to glue Engman inner long kit. I guess it’s not that ridiculously stupid after all and I’m going to give it a shot.

Benefits are huge: eliminates risk of shrinking/twisting longitudinals, damaging heater tube inside long channel, damaging wire harness, fuel lines and whatever else is inside tunnel, no need to take out entire interior etc.
Another good candidate would be the battery tray.

For those who are interested:
1) Alphabetical list of products
http://www.3m.com/product/a_index.html
2) Adhesive, Automix Panel Bonding (pretty expensive)
http://3mcollision.com/3m-automix-panel-bo...sive-08116.html

[r_towle]

I would really like to hear how this works out.
I am not certain structural adhesive can stand up (thus why car makers still weld the unibody)

For a fender...I agree it may be a better way to go versus welding.

Rich

[jmill]

As far as glue joints go, it doesn't get any better than the Engman inner long kit. It's a lap joint with a huge amount of surface area. My main concern would be rust weakening the glue joint. If you paint it your joint will only be as strong as the paint to metal bond.

[Strudelwagon]

As far as glue joints go, it doesn't get any better than the Engman inner long kit. It's a lap joint with a huge amount of surface area. My main concern would be rust weakening the glue joint. If you paint it your joint will only be as strong as the paint to metal bond.

Mmmmmm Glue

[Bartlett 914]

As far as glue joints go, it doesn't get any better than the Engman inner long kit. It's a lap joint with a huge amount of surface area. My main concern would be rust weakening the glue joint. If you paint it your joint will only be as strong as the paint to metal bond.

But here is a big advantage. With a clean surface, the rust won't form because it will be sealed. When welding these panels, you should use a weld through primer to prevent rusting between the panels. As far as the Engman kit being glued in, it might be a great way to go. If the glue fails, your car won't fall apart. It is a stiffening kit and not really structural.

[mikea100]

Mark,
Great point. Check out this chart.

Directions:
http://www.3m.com.au/intl/au/auto_marine/a...g_Wallchart.pdf

Basic summary:
Surface needs to be stripped to bare metal. Thin layer needs to be applied to bare metal and will act as primer (9). Then 2nd layer needs to be applied.

The more i read about it, the more I like it. You can even spot weld through this stuff (6), then you may use weld thru primer.

[sfrenck]

I followed Rich’s advise and did a quick research on 3M website. I think that if they glue box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides, then it’s pretty safe to glue Engman inner long kit. I guess it’s not that ridiculously stupid after all and I’m going to give it a shot.

Benefits are huge: eliminates risk of shrinking/twisting longitudinals, damaging heater tube inside long channel, damaging wire harness, fuel lines and whatever else is inside tunnel, no need to take out entire interior etc.
Another good candidate would be the battery tray.

For those who are interested:
1) Alphabetical list of products
http://www.3m.com/product/a_index.html
2) Adhesive, Automix Panel Bonding (pretty expensive)
http://3mcollision.com/3m-automix-panel-bo...sive-08116.html

Don't forget this: 3m Adhesive Gun

Wonder how much 200mL will cover?

[Bartlett 914]

For those who are interested:
1) Alphabetical list of products
http://www.3m.com/product/a_index.html
2) Adhesive, Automix Panel Bonding (pretty expensive)
http://3mcollision.com/3m-automix-panel-bo...sive-08116.html

Don't forget this: 3m Adhesive Gun

Wonder how much 200mL will cover?

$411.00 for 6 200ml packs. Makes the Engman kit look cheap by comparison. I still think this is a cool method. You can even spot weld through it.

[Elliot Cannon]

THOMAS glued fiberglass flared fenders on his car. It worked great but he said you must make damn sure you have what you are gluing in the correct position because once the glue sets up it is ON THERE FOR GOOD. Having said that, I think I would rather weld the Engman kit on (which is what I did).
Cheers, Elliot

[mepstein]

I think this was discussed before. I think the consensus was that gluing/bonding this piece is not the optimal way to secure since the two areas were not designed for epoxy bonding and the gaps in the panels will not be uniform. I think it would also be very hard to secure the reinforcement panel to the long and especially to the firewall while the glue dries.

[Elliot Cannon]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) What he said.

[surfbus66]

I bought a product called Fusor made by Lord Industries. I used it on my bus when I replaced the long rocker panel on the left side. I was affraid of having major warping welding on such a long peice. Worked great! However, it needs to be clamped tight for it to hold. I glued two 1" strips together and could not tear them apart.

[jmill]

You can vacuum bag it easy. I've vacuum bagged heater blankets onto airplane wings. Get some vacuum tape, thick plastic and a vacuum pump or the cheaper venturi vacuum generator. Way better than clamps and you'll have equal pressure on every square inch. It'll suck the metal down tight.

[sww914]

You can use 1/8" self tapping screws through both panels to bind them tight and then remove them later and glue the holes shut. Way faster and way cheaper than those silly Kleco fasteners.

[raw1298]

I am using the 3m panel bond adhesive on my fiberglass quarter panels. I used the self tapping screws and filled holes with the adhesive when they were removed. The thread is here, I don't know how to attach it to this. It is titled "on the ground". I bought all mine on ebay for 40.00 per unit. I may be selling the applicator when I finish!