Wiring Help Please, Fuel Pump won't shut off Options

[rwilner]

My reverse lights weren't coming on. I traced it back to my ignition harness, which was totally hacked up. The yellow ignition wire was butt-spliced AROUND the relay board. The reverse light wires were run as completely separate wires. The pinout of the 12-pin connector on the aft side of the relay board was completely wrong. DAPOs strike again! I have no idea how this car even started and ran in this condition, but it did.

So I got a rebuilt relay board and a decent ignition harness from Mark Heard. I took the good part of my harness and the good part of his, and combined them. I rung out the harness with my dmm -- all good.

I transfer the vreg and relays over to the new board, install, run the new harness. I turn the key to ACC and put the car in reverse. The reverse lights come on for the first time since I owned the car! Yes!

But wait...the fuel pump seems to keep running. Before my repair, when I turned the key to ACC and left it, the fuel pump would run for a second or 2 and then stop.

So I try to start it, and it's running really rough. It starts to make a wheezing sound after maybe 5 seconds, and I shut it off.

I know this isn't a ton of info, but do you guys have any ideas?

73 2.0L FI, crane electronic ignition and coil.

Moving in the right direction....I will undo all the sins of the past

Thanks
Rich

Pics of the harness I removed are below (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

[r_towle]

pull out and replace the fuel pump relay (use a headlight relay that you know works...headlights are a simple test for any relay...)

rich

[rwilner]

pull out and replace the fuel pump relay (use a headlight relay that you know works...headlights are a simple test for any relay...)

rich

Rich
When I pulled all 4 relays off the board, the fuel pump was still running with the key in ACC.

That's when I gave up for the night

[r_towle]

relay board is from where?
What was wrong with the last board?

Pump typically starts for a few seconds, then shuts off when you are cranking.
Once the car is on, the pump is on full time...so it really wont hurt anything for the moment.

The car runs like crap and dies....
Might need to check your 12vdc at the coil...

Rich

[Dave_Darling]

Thew #12 wire in the T12 connector (right-rear pin) is tied into the fuel pump circuit. If you're running +12V to that pin, you'll run the pump full-time. The wire that hooks there should be a white one, and it should go to the aux air reg.

That sounds like one of the likely suspects.

--DD

[rwilner]

Thew #12 wire in the T12 connector (right-rear pin) is tied into the fuel pump circuit. If you're running +12V to that pin, you'll run the pump full-time. The wire that hooks there should be a white one, and it should go to the aux air reg.

That sounds like one of the likely suspects.

--DD

Dave
I thought the AAR output was only energized once the car was running, not with the key in ACC?

[r_towle]

Can you post a pic (up close) of the back side of that plug with the cover removed?
You may have swapped a few positions on the plug itself.

Rich

[rwilner]

Can you post a pic (up close) of the back side of that plug with the cover removed?
You may have swapped a few positions on the plug itself.

Rich

Rich
I'll post a pic of both plugs.

Honestly I suspect the 14 pin plug at the front of the board more than the 12 pin at the rear. The relay board I replaced had a burned out trace and 8a fuse was blown. When I opened the rear connector, the pins were totally hacked up -- one was crudely repaired and shorting across another pin (probably what blew the fuse), another wire was totally broken off the pin.

I replaced these with good pins from a donor harness, but I suspect the pinout on that 14 pin is wrong.

Be back in a few mins with pics, have to finish paying the bills

[rwilner]

One other thing I noticed --

Since I did the ignition harness repair, not only are my reverse lights working, but the green oil light is coming on when I have the key in ACC. This never happened before.

That's a good thing right?

[Mike Bellis]

From Bowlsby.net

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/bowlsby.net-10496-1303656336.1.jpg)

[rwilner]

Thanks

I was using this one also

[Tom_T]

Rich, IMHO after 38 years of frying in the hot engine bay, those harnesses need rebuilt or replaced anyway - unless you enjoy driving yourself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) chasing electrical gremlins ad nauseum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

FYI Jeff Bowlsby sells rebuilt ones, & I think he rebuilds the relay boards too, as well as selling repro intermittent wiper harness/relay if you want to add that feature (install & snap out retent tab on steering column housing & you've got intermittent option).
http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/

[rwilner]

Tom
No question -- Jeff's ignition harness is on my list, and my experiences last night may bring it up a notch or 2! I'm replacing all the FI stuff with megasquirt soon so I don't think investing in an FI harness is worth it for me.

Put some bucks into the trans and a carpet set so trying to get by for awhile with what I have and enjoy the car at some DE events.

70 degrees and sunny outside right now -- having the car out of commission is killing me!

Ok I'm going to stop typing and start troubleshooting.

[rwilner]

OK, here's some pics.

Here's my "new" relay board and repaired harnesses, as installed:


Here's a photo of the "new" 12-pin connector. The pinout matches the bowlsby drawing and Haynes:


Here's a photo of the "old" 12 pin connector. Nothing is in the right spot except for the AAR wire and the green jumper. The red and black wires on the left were going to my reverse switch, which, shockingly, didn't work! That's what started this whole exercise


Here are the two pinouts compared:


I checked, and the black/purple stripe is connected to coil -, and the thicker black one is connected to coil +. Pic in the next post.

[rwilner]

Here's a picture of my ignition setup. This is not my installation work. Looking at the crane manual, the - and + are hooked up correctly -- at least, the blk/purple stripe is connected to the right spot.

The wiring in the upper left goes to an MSD rev limiter (Again, not my install). This whole setup worked ok before I dug into the hacked up harness to fix my reverse lights.



At this point i'm thinking the PO or PO's mechanic swapped the 14 pin connector's pinout at the front of the board to match the screwed up pinout of the 12 pin connector at the rear. Does anyone know what the pinout is for the 14 pin connector (near the firewall)? I have haynes but if someone has a drawing or another source, much appreciated.

Any other ideas?

[rwilner]

just found this. Jeff Bowlsby is the man.

[rwilner]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) JB is the man

[rwilner]

Fixed!

I pinned out the 14 pin connector according to Jeff's drawing. I now have my reverse lights, my oil pressure switch, AND the car starts on the first pull.

More sins of the past undone!

(Thanks Jeff)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[r_towle]

Sweet.
Now, get the damn brakes fixed so you can drive it (says the guy who cut open his fender to replace a bit of rust...)

Rich

[rwilner]

Sweet.
Now, get the damn brakes fixed so you can drive it (says the guy who cut open his fender to replace a bit of rust...)

Rich

Rich
My brakes work...and they should with 4 new calipers, new pads, new soft lines, bleeders, spreader springs, and fluid. It's just that the ebrake on the pass side isn't working.

My temp solution until I can get to your air wrench: keep a brick in the car and slide it under the front wheel.

Driving it to work tomorrow!