Can't get starter to work, grrr.. Options

[3liter914-6]

Ok, so I'm trying to start the car after putting it back together, and can't get the thing to crank.

I originally had a loose ground strap, but I have since installed a new one (I assume it doesn't matter where on the tranny it bolts to as long as the surfaces are clean, I installed it on a lower nut for easier access.) First time I cranked the key maybe 1-2 cranks. Tried again and clunk. clunk. swapped battery. clunk. clunk. Went and got a helper to crank while I messed with the starter. Actually got it to crank a whole bunch, maybe 10-15 revolutions, by wiggiling the 12V from the battery, next turn of the key...clunk. Cleaned post and cable with emory and brakleen. Couldn't get it to crank again. Had helper try while screwing with starter some more (tapping with hammer, noticed the ground strap that goes from bolt on solenoid to starter was smoking. During all this clunking the starter was getting very hot. Thought maybe the used SR68X was at fault, so I swapped in the original .8hp starter which worked fine before the rebuild. still nothing. Checked connections at battery, recleaned ground strap, still nothing. Ran jumper cables from battery to 12V post on starter and tranny ground strap, still nothing. Anyone have any ideas? Could both starters be bad? Am I missing something? One thing I am missing is I guess I'm supposed to have a cable from the Alternator? I can't find it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) and don't remember it ever being there.


Thanks,

Adam

[3liter914-6]

fat black battery cable and made sure it was properly torqued down. Busted out the dremel and the wire wheel and now all the terminals on the 68X are pretty in pink and my nuts are sparkly. Going to swap that back in as that's worked the best so far.

Adam

[3liter914-6]

ok, original /6 starter is out, I cleaned up the mating surface on the bellhousing and starter and am now going to stick the 68X back in. Just thought I'd share...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[3liter914-6]

SR68 back in. No luck. I disconnected the starter cable from the battery and ran a jumper cable from the + to the post on the solenoid. Still just clunking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
The starter cable does get nice and hot though, as does the starter/solenoid. Would this indicate a short somewhere? Could it be internal to the starter/solenoid? If not, since I've bypassed the fat 12V cable, wouldn't that just leave the switched 12V as the problem?

well, back out to futz with it I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Jeff Bonanno]

is it engaging the flywheel and not turning it over? could try pulling the plugs to at least get it spinning and lube up the internals.

[tat2dphreak]

take a screw driver and short from the 12V terminal to the switched... if it turns over then it's the somewhere between the switch and the starter... if it doesn't turn over with that, then your starter sounds bad... assuming of course your ground strap is not the issue again...

[3liter914-6]

is it engaging the flywheel and not turning it over?  could try pulling the plugs to at least get it spinning and lube up the internals.

I think it must be, I just got back from the garage where I messed with giving 12V to various terminals. Bench testing on the /6 one first.

Test #1. 12V to flag terminal. Ok, so the audible pop/click that I hear when the starter cable is disconnected and the key turns is the solenoid popping out. This works on both the /6 starter, and the SR68X starter (at least I think so, see test 3).

Test #2. 12V to 2nd nut on starter. Motor on both /6 and 68X spins freely and quickly.

Test #3. 12V to Solenoid and 2nd nut. /6 off car extends arm and spins. 68X clunks.
so that means to me that the starter is engaging the flywheel.

*time passes*

I just got back from Pep Boys where I picked up a new battery (replacement Optima) and had the /6 starter tested. They ran it and it checked out fine by their standards. Basically hooked it up and let it spin and measured the amps it pulled down (around 50 or 60 Amps at full chat). I'm wondering if this is an effective test of the starter. Couldn't it spin like the dickens without a load placed on it, but not have enough grunt to crank an engine over?

I gotta think that something else is wrong though, granted 1 starter hasn't been used in 4 years and the other is from a junkyard, but what could it be? even if I completely bypass the wiring on the car, the starter won't crank when engaging the flywheel. Should the wire to the batt and starter/solenoid get so hot though? After 3 or 4 clunks, the cable gets so hot I can smell it.

Could I have screwed something up on the install that's somehow preventing the starter from turning? I don't think this much of a possibility as, like I said earlier, the first time before I swapped anything I got it to crank the engine without any changes to the mechanical orientation.


Thanks for any more help. If someone could shed some like on the validity of the Pep Boys test, that'd be a big help as I could then see about getting a rebuilt starter for tomorrow.

As always, any suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam

[3liter914-6]

can I get a w00t w00t! Bolstered by the Pep Boys verdict, I went out after dinner and played around with the starter some more. Decided to take the starter out and test it, and then make damn sure it was installed properly. I dropped one wheel down, and with the car in gear, rotated the ring gear. Then I alligator clipped a lead onto the solenoid +12V and slid it into place. Bolted everything down, turned the key and voila!. It's really odd that taking the starter in and out 4 times it never lined up properly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . Oh well.

Hey, anyone need a new starter installed, I'm super good at it now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[bob174]

Hey man, don't feel bad. If you think the starter sucks, I've done that with the transmission. Hell, I got so that I could drop that engine in less than an hour.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Great job Adam, You thought and talked about it enough that you figured it out all by your self. That's the best problem solver there is. Persistance ALWAYS wears down resistance. Never say die. Never give up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)