HELP! 72 914 1.7 not starting Options

[914_classic]

Got it out a few weeks ago and it wont start. It will start when you fog the intake with starting fluid. Im going to start testing fuel pressure. first after the pump, then after the filter, then after the regulator. I don't have a noid light to check the injector signal, but they are grounded.

any ideas?...

thanks!

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[Spoke]

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Simple things first.

Do you hear the fuel pump run when you turn the ignition key to ON? It should run for 2 seconds.

[Chris Pincetich]

You can test your headlights, if they raise and lower, the round relays under those plastic covers near the headlight motors are good.

Now take those 2 round relays that you know work and swap them with the 2 in the engine fuse panel. Just unscrew the knob and lift off the plastic cover to see them (driver's side of engine bay). Those relays work the fuel pump + fuel injection brain and if they are shot then you get what you got.
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[914_classic]

The fuel pump runs constantly. could that be a sign that the fuel pressure sensor is bad?

[914_classic]

The car has sufficient fuel pressure coming out of the pressure regulator. I got a set of noid lights and have found that i have no signal going to the injectors. I also have lost spark, I have it coming out of the coil but not into the plug wires. I remember reading that there are injector triggers on the distributor. could my points be bad and thats why i have no fuel or spark?

p.s. still cant figure why the fuel pump runs constantly instead of just priming...

[914_classic]

oh and chris ^ i have not checked the relays yet but could they cause a problem like this? also i noticed that there are three relays on the board in the engine bay. which ones would i switch?

[underthetire]

There is no fuel pressure sensor. Either some DAPO hot wired the pump, or something wrong in the wiring to the ECU or bad ECU,bad injector points, or bad relay. My guess is DAPO. Should have 28PSI pressure. You can't guess at it, has to be very close.

There are two sets of points, one for ignition, one for the ECU to trigger the injectors and fuel pump. If you indeed have spark coming out of the coil, it goes through the wire, to the distributor cap, through the rotor and back to the cap. Ignition points only control the coil.

[914_classic]

^ Well I have a D-jet fuel system component schematic and it says one of the componants is a pressure sensor. I know the FPR is adjustable, should I dial it down to around 28 PSI? Im going to check the headlight relays and see if they are good, if so Ill swap them and go from there.

[underthetire]

yes, but not for fuel, thats manifold pressure. And yes, 28PSI is the correct setting.

[Drums66]

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[914_classic]

So I got signal to the fuel injectors. Its was the power supply relay, got it replaced. While I was testing things out I noticed the fuel pump was running even though there was no relays or fuses in the relay board. I proceeded to aquire spark (condensor and coil), although its weak. Went to start it and now the fuel pump wont turn on at all. I put the battery charger on it and the pump pulsed slowly, then stopped. It has been relocated under the tank, which is going to make this 10 times harder. I also believe PO just wired the fuel pump straight into the ign switch but I cant find any wires. Any ideas?

[914_classic]

The car will only produce spark OR fuel. not both at the same time. I removed cleaned and reinstalled the distributer per manual instructions. The fuel pump will run when contact is broken inside the distributor (at the ign points). could the grounds be bad and its all trying to ground through the distributor making it do all these strange things? It has become so erratic and bizzare Im ready to just bring it to a 914 specialist but there arent any in west michigan... HELP!

[Cap'n Krusty]

The car has sufficient fuel pressure coming out of the pressure regulator. I got a set of noid lights and have found that i have no signal going to the injectors. I also have lost spark, I have it coming out of the coil but not into the plug wires. I remember reading that there are injector triggers on the distributor. could my points be bad and thats why i have no fuel or spark?

p.s. still can't figure why the fuel pump runs constantly instead of just priming...

There is no "fuel pressure sensor". Fuel pressure is measured BEFORE the fuel pressure regulator. It's done at the tap in the left (1/2) fuel rail. DO NOT lose the screw or the aluminum washer! If the pump runs all the time, you have a hot-wire issue. To test the injector circuit, turn on the key and slowly open the throttle by hand. You should hear a succession of clicks from the injectors, If you don't, there's likely a problem in the supply voltage to the system. If you hear clicks, then you need to rig a test light to one of the injector plugs and have someone crank the engine. Are you SURE the injectors are grounded under the intake plenum? Check that. If you have no flashing test light, and it's correctly connected, you'll need to check the trigger points. Unplug the TP connector on the side of the distributor, turn the key on, and use a paper clip to gently short the center wire to the one of the outer wires, then the other one. You should hear the injectors click, one pair at a time. Beyond this, you REALLY need to go to Paul (PB) Anders' website and read or download the D-jet trouble shooting guide.

The Cap'n

[Tom]

Reading the whole thread, I think you have some electrical connection problems. IE; fuel pump runs, then doesn't. Spark comes and goes.
Check the grounds under the relay panel, the battery connections, and pull the round relays and try to clean out the holes a little with a round wire brush. Clean the round relay prongs and slightly spread them with an icepick ot other sharply pointed round tool - not too much, just a little. That will help them make better contact. Also pull and clean and eyeball the 14 and 12 pin connectors on the relay board. They can get corroded and cause problems. Probably a good idea to pull the battery connectors while doing this.
The fuel pump should not run all of the time. Maybe the previous owner had a no fuel pump running problem and fixed it the easy way by shorting two connectors in the 14 pin connector - reason to eyeball them. You should fix that as it can lead to bad things if you have a fuel leak.
Tom

[Jeffs9146]

Ignition switch is going bad causing the fuel pump to shut off when ignition is in start mode??!

[Tom]

Start mode and pump are on the same trace on the relay board. If starter is working, ignition switch is good.
ECU causes a ground to be at the fuel pump relay pin 86 on one of three conditions,
1- when ign. sw. to on, pump to on for 1.5 sec.
2- when starter is engaged by ignition sw.
3- whenever engine is turning over at 100 RPM or greater.
Tom

[Prospectfarms]

The car will only produce spark OR fuel. not both at the same time. I removed cleaned and reinstalled the distributer per manual instructions. The fuel pump will run when contact is broken inside the distributor (at the ign points). could the grounds be bad and its all trying to ground through the distributor making it do all these strange things? It has become so erratic and bizzare Im ready to just bring it to a 914 specialist but there arent any in west michigan... HELP!

You've indicated that your FP runs constantly with key "on" (bad) but that it ran when the ignition points made contact. That sounds contradictory but maybe I misunderstood you.

two weeks ago my car had symptoms that sound similar to yours. Here's my story.

I recently had to diagnose an ignition problem in my 72 1.7. It was an erratic loss of spark. Sometimes I got it at a plug, sometimes no.

Thought maybe I'd missed the dwell, but also worried about the dizzy itself. As I gapped the points, I sometimes left the ignition on to see if the points would spark. I noticed then that as the rotor turned a full cycle the fuel pump would kick on for a second. To the best of my knowledge it that's O.K.

So it turned out that the tiny woven copper wire ground strap connecting the distributor advance plates was broken. It flopped around inside the diz and gave an intermittent ground, which resulted in an unreliable and often weak spark.

Here was my simple but tedious repair: remove distributor, secure it at a working height. Remove cover, points, capacitor, rotor. Strip about three inches of #18 stranded copper wire. Twist it into a loose strand. Decide where the ends of the ground strap used to be. Clean the heck out of those spots with some abrasive and a very careful cue-tip application of acid flux. Solder it to the plates by "tinning" the ends of the wire and the spots they are to be affixed to the plates. Then solder it on. Used resin core electrical solder.

Afterwards I blew everything out with air and re-lubed the moving parts.

Lots "o spark now.

If the pump is in fact hot wired, you ought to be able to traced the offending wire back to its illicit splice somewhere on the front lighting harness. It could be coming directly from the ignition, but the condition indicates a lazy mechanic and it would be a lot easier to bring power back to the pump from that harness than reaching through all that fresh air stuff against the front "firewall." I should say that on mine, there is a red wire that's always hot, but maybe that's not spec.

There's a couple of ways to bring the correct FP power to the front trunk, but I'd let someone who's done that job explain how.

Good luck.