End Play Shimming Problem, I am stuck! |
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End Play Shimming Problem, I am stuck! |
kkid |
Jul 25 2011, 02:12 PM
Post
#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 18-December 07 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 8,483 Region Association: Northern California |
Hey guys,
So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse. Thanks in advance for your insight and help! kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
914Mels |
Jul 25 2011, 03:11 PM
Post
#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 357 Joined: 20-June 11 From: Santee Member No.: 13,221 Region Association: Southern California |
Three shims is the correct set-up, if you need to use four shims you have a problem with the crank or rear main bearing. The shims don't come sized to put four in and get the correct end play. Wth no shims installed, set up your dial indicator and read you max endplay. From that reading you should be able to shuffle the stock sizes and get set up. Mike
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mgphoto |
Jul 26 2011, 09:58 AM
Post
#3
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,364 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
Hey guys, So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse. Thanks in advance for your insight and help! kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hello kkid, I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec. You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break. I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem. Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in! Mike |
kkid |
Jul 26 2011, 11:14 AM
Post
#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 18-December 07 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 8,483 Region Association: Northern California |
Hey guys, So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse. Thanks in advance for your insight and help! kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hello kkid, I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec. You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break. I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem. Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in! Mike Thanks guys for the info. The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me? Thanks, kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
Drums66 |
Jul 26 2011, 01:01 PM
Post
#5
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914 Rudiments Group: Members Posts: 5,321 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Coronado,Cali Member No.: 151 Region Association: Southwest Region |
.......if you need more than 3....get on your knees & pray (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)(shims) |
mgphoto |
Jul 26 2011, 02:23 PM
Post
#6
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,364 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
Hey guys, So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse. Thanks in advance for your insight and help! kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hello kkid, I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec. You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break. I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem. Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in! Mike Thanks guys for the info. The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me? Thanks, kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Most VW guys set up the end play for between .003" and .005" (metric is .08 to .13) at this point you are .124mm large, if you could pick up 2 .38mm and a new .36mm you would be at .13mm, try the classified section someone may have the shims. |
Jake Raby |
Jul 26 2011, 06:07 PM
Post
#7
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness.
3 shims are used for a very good reason. |
kkid |
Jul 27 2011, 09:02 AM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 18-December 07 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 8,483 Region Association: Northern California |
.......if you need more than 3....get on your knees & pray (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)(shims) Thanks for drumming. I am good at getting on my knees and probably praying too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
kkid |
Jul 27 2011, 09:11 AM
Post
#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 18-December 07 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 8,483 Region Association: Northern California |
We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness. 3 shims are used for a very good reason. Glad to hear from you, Jake! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) I have heard a good reason for the 3 shims but why not 4? I am being tempted to add 4th if there is no negative reason. PM sent kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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