Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> End Play Shimming Problem, I am stuck!
kkid
post Jul 25 2011, 02:12 PM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 18-December 07
From: Oakland, CA
Member No.: 8,483
Region Association: Northern California



Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies(1 - 8)
914Mels
post Jul 25 2011, 03:11 PM
Post #2


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 357
Joined: 20-June 11
From: Santee
Member No.: 13,221
Region Association: Southern California



Three shims is the correct set-up, if you need to use four shims you have a problem with the crank or rear main bearing. The shims don't come sized to put four in and get the correct end play. Wth no shims installed, set up your dial indicator and read you max endplay. From that reading you should be able to shuffle the stock sizes and get set up. Mike
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mgphoto
post Jul 26 2011, 09:58 AM
Post #3


"If there is a mistake it will find me"
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,364
Joined: 1-April 09
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 10,225
Region Association: Southern California



QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kkid
post Jul 26 2011, 11:14 AM
Post #4


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 18-December 07
From: Oakland, CA
Member No.: 8,483
Region Association: Northern California



QUOTE(mgphoto @ Jul 26 2011, 08:58 AM) *

QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike


Thanks guys for the info.
The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Drums66
post Jul 26 2011, 01:01 PM
Post #5


914 Rudiments
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,321
Joined: 15-January 03
From: Coronado,Cali
Member No.: 151
Region Association: Southwest Region



.......if you need more than 3....get on your knees & pray (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)(shims)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mgphoto
post Jul 26 2011, 02:23 PM
Post #6


"If there is a mistake it will find me"
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,364
Joined: 1-April 09
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 10,225
Region Association: Southern California



QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 26 2011, 10:14 AM) *

QUOTE(mgphoto @ Jul 26 2011, 08:58 AM) *

QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike


Thanks guys for the info.
The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Most VW guys set up the end play for between .003" and .005" (metric is .08 to .13) at this point you are .124mm large, if you could pick up 2 .38mm and a new .36mm you would be at .13mm, try the classified section someone may have the shims.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jake Raby
post Jul 26 2011, 06:07 PM
Post #7


Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9,398
Joined: 31-August 03
From: Lost
Member No.: 1,095
Region Association: South East States



We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness.

3 shims are used for a very good reason.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kkid
post Jul 27 2011, 09:02 AM
Post #8


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 18-December 07
From: Oakland, CA
Member No.: 8,483
Region Association: Northern California



QUOTE(Drums66 @ Jul 26 2011, 12:01 PM) *


Thanks for drumming. I am good at getting on my knees and probably praying too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kkid
post Jul 27 2011, 09:11 AM
Post #9


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 18-December 07
From: Oakland, CA
Member No.: 8,483
Region Association: Northern California



QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 26 2011, 05:07 PM) *

We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness.

3 shims are used for a very good reason.


Glad to hear from you, Jake! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

I have heard a good reason for the 3 shims but why not 4? I am being tempted to add 4th if there is no negative reason.

PM sent

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st October 2024 - 05:20 PM