5 lug benefits? Options

[IanJ]

OK. Other than being able to fit a nice set of Fuch wheels to my 914 what are the other benefits of upgrading to 5 lug?

Are there any of the 911 calipers that 'bolt on' without going 5?
Any restrictions on upgrading with 911 suspension parts?

Any help/pointers appreciated.

[jcd914]

OK. Other than being able to fit a nice set of Fuch wheels to my 914 what are the other benefits of upgrading to 5 lug?

What other justification do you want?

My reasoning was better choice of wheels, easy increase in brakes with out total unbalancing the brake bias. 911 T brakes are equivalent to the 914/6 brakes.
Plus at the time a set of good used 911 T struts, calipers, rotors, and cookie cutter for $200.

Are there any of the 911 calipers that 'bolt on' without going 5?

Early 911/912 front calipers for non vented rotors will bolt on to a 914 strut. Requires some 'shims' (washers) to center the caliper on the rotor. I had early 914 struts when I did mine. The 914 rotor is thinner than the non vent 911/912 rotor so you may be able wear the pads down beyond the range of the caliper pistons and loose seal on the piston.

Any restrictions on upgrading with 911 suspension parts?

Up front, you don't need any 911 parts except the front struts, hubs, rotors & calipers, everything else can be 914. You need to match the ball joints to the struts, pinch bolt VS taper pin.
914 & 911 strut inserts (Boge, Koni gas) are physically interchangable.

In the rear I got drilled rear 914 hubs and used 914/6 rotors with 914/4 rear calipers with no clearance problems, others have had to have the OD of the rotors trimmed a few mm. Maybe I bought the rotors trimmed already and don't recall.

[IanJ]

What other justification do you want?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Thanks JCD

I know what you mean.However parts aren't exactly bountiful in Australia like in the US (If I could pick up a bargain like you did I guess it wouldn't really be a question). So I've been toying with a 'staged' upgrade. I need new front struts (and will do ball joints and rod ends while i'm there at the very least), but am curious to know if there is anything else to be gained.

[jcd914]

What other justification do you want?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Thanks JCD

I know what you mean.However parts aren't exactly bountiful in Australia like in the US (If I could pick up a bargain like you did I guess it wouldn't really be a question). So I've been toying with a 'staged' upgrade. I need new front struts (and will do ball joints and rod ends while i'm there at the very least), but am curious to know if there is anything else to be gained.

The non-vented 911/912 calipers use the same brake pads size and piston diameter as the vented versions which are bigger than the 914/4 brakes. So you get more clamping power and more pad surface area, ultimately more braking up front but...
After I installed the 912 front calipers on my stock 4 rotors I tended to overheat them. Never faded on me but my new shiny rotors turned a nice blue color.

Jim

[carr914]

Lug Studs & Nuts vs those Pain in the Ass Bolts

[wingnut86]

Shameless Plug - Sharpbuilt would be a good resource for you Down Under.

Touch base with them and see if they can point you in the direction of 911 parts and accesories.

Good Luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page12.htm

[IanJ]

Thanks guys.

I'd forgotten about sharpbuilt....will take a look and see what goodies they have.

[Eric_Shea]

OK. Other than being able to fit a nice set of Fuch wheels to my 914 what are the other benefits of upgrading to 5 lug?

A few but, the 914 suspension is extremely capable. Larger spindles (never experienced a problem with the 914 spindles). Removable hubs vs. hubs built into the rotor. This helps when you just need a rotor and not bearings but... bearings are cheap and a great time to replace them is when you get new rotors.

Are there any of the 911 calipers that 'bolt on' without going 5?

Yes. The 911 M-Caliper without the spacers will bolt on to an early strut. You need to clarify what year suspension you have because the fronts changed in or around 1972.8. That said, the advantage of using a 911 caliper with the same pad size you have now is... zilch. You will change your brake bias to be heavier toward the front (there are worse places to be heavy braked) and you would probably need a 19mm master cylinder. So; no advantage, extra cost and a misconstrued brake bias.

You can also use various BMW and Brembo calipers but, again, there will be bias issues and you'll need a 19mm MC. Those calipers have larger pads.

If I'm reading between the lines, it sounds like you're after a brake upgrade. There are many threads on this and, to save you the searching and tons of reading; 914 brakes are fantastic if they're working properly. The best upgrade for a stock bodied, stock engined 914 is a full set of Porterfield pads and possibly a caliper rebuild. Nice new stickey tires round out the "upgrade" rather well. Get new fluid and bed your new pads properly and you'll be suprised at how well it will perform. If you're use to driving one of today's "power everything" brake systems then there's a basic understanding that a system from the 70's will feel a bit different.

That said, there are upgrades available. Be prepared to do it right (they are brakes) and spend some money.

Any restrictions on upgrading with 911 suspension parts?

Not too many but you'll want to exercise the uncommon trait of common sense.

Most complete suspensions from early 911's bolt on and are an exact fit. See the extremely detailed 5-Lug Question and Answer thread in the "Classics" section.

My favorite for a narrow bodied stockish car is to simply swap the T-Struts (M-Caliper 3" spacing struts) for the 914 units. This way you get to keep your stock spring rates and you'll have your choice of inserts while upgrading to a vented rotor.

You can easily bolt on late model Carrera struts which will come with 9lb. calipers and huge 24mm rotors that are simply not necessary on a 2,000lb car. So... for me, those kind of things should be "restrictions".

If you want it just for the wheels etc., that's "totally" understandable. 914's with 5-lug Fuchs look amazing. My suggestion would be to explore (5-Lug Q&A thread) what it would take to do just that while making sure your 914 brake system is up to snuff. Going 5-lug is an "expensive" journey and there are some things you can do, based upon what your actual needs are to mitigate that pain on your wallet.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728

[IanJ]

Thanks Eric. You summed up my thinking nicely for me. I will be upping the power in the near future but just because it will be going quicker doesn't mean there is more weight to haul to a stop (or round the corners)