Installing flares, how good is good, how would Scott B do it? Options

[ruby914]

I am now installing my flares and hoped to use very little body filler.
I located the flares, sheet metal screwed, marked off with a sharpie, started the cut with a cutoff wheel, finished with a body saw keeping tabs at the screws, removed paint on both sides, tacked between the tabs and tacked until I could cut off the tabs with a good fit. I continued to tack until about every 3/4". Never ran a weld over 1/2" at a time. I tried to move my welds around to reduce heat.
I was happy with my work feeling the flare had more die marks than warping from my welding.
So standing back I see something I am not sure I like.
This may not just be a welding question but what a factory 914 GT looks like?
What I am seeing is, before the flare, flares out, the fender pulls in. I see this mostly in the back of the front flare. I have only cut the 2nd front fender off and I see the remaining fender has pulled in before any welding.
This is a first time for me and I am sure there is a lot to be learned with many years in the business.
So is the pulling in the norm? In all the beautiful photos of clean lines, how much body filler is reasonable.
Is there ways to limit this from the start or is this normally fixed with hammer and dolly as you go?
I will try to add a photo of where it is pulling in.

Thanks

[dlestep]

spend some hours staring at this guys work...for correct appearance.
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/112130363

the subduction of the metal just before the vertical portion of the metal
edge of your metal flare could have been supported by two or three temporarily
welded straps to maintain the position the surface. Not all stamped parts are the same.
The factory used full fenders. Some 6s used even more sedate flares.
You will see radial, blended interfaces.
There are a few good sites dedicated to construction of flares.
Another shot of adding flares...



This picture is for reference (not my car), hope this helps in your quest.
I know that I was challenged by letting in the flares, especially correcting the termination underneath.
I had to add material because there wasn't enough metal on the flares to terminate them properly.

[scotty b]

Your fender most likely was already a little buckled, or you got it a bit hot when welding and sucked in. These flares are not a " perfect " fit but are a damn good start. The way you proceeded is a god way to go. I always keep my hammer and dolly by my side and work the seam as I am welding. I also do not run beads. I just connect spot/tack welds. This way I can get it set in place, then work the gap shut, add another tack, work the gap back together etc.

[gothspeed]

When I get around to installing mine, I want to know what most of you guys did at the bottom/end of each flare. Here are some pics of what another did.

How did you do yours??

[mepstein]

"The factory used full fenders." - I don't believe that is true.

[SirAndy]

The factory used full fenders.

Nope. They butt-welded them just like most of us ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[scotty b]

Early 930's were welded on, on all four corners too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I agree with Scotty, I can see body filler in a crease in the photo. First thing would be to remove all the filler and rework the crease. There is much to learn grasshopper. You have a good start there.

[jmill]

Lots and lots of little spot welds. Tack around the radius and then spot in between the spots. Keep going slowly until you have a spot everywhere.

[ruby914]

spend some hours staring at this guys work...for correct appearance.
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/112130363

edge of your metal flare could have been supported by two or three temporarily
welded straps to maintain the position the surface.

I think the straps to maintain the position the surface is not a bad idea.

Thanks for the great link, I will look it over carefully.

[ruby914]

Your fender most likely was already a little buckled, or you got it a bit hot when welding and sucked in. These flares are not a " perfect " fit but are a damn good start. The way you proceeded is a god way to go. I always keep my hammer and dolly by my side and work the seam as I am welding. I also do not run beads. I just connect spot/tack welds. This way I can get it set in place, then work the gap shut, add another tack, work the gap back together etc.

Sometimes it is not easy for the grasshopper to see the forest through the trees.
Both of my front 1/4 panels had been replaced by PO. For the most part it was not bad work. Some smaller things I wish were better but it is what it is and I am getting the chance to clean up some old repairs.

Scotty you and Rick were spot on.
That was body filler, you can see how I removed most and thought I had something reasonable to work with but I am sure that added to what I have now.
The other side will be tacks, no 1/2 beads, only tacks.

After welding, I found the door gap larger. I found where the PO brazed the aft end of the 1/4 panel top and bottom had snapped. With out that tacked the metal was free to draw in.
I managed to pull it back and re-weld it with a reasonable door gap.
Now, I am working on pulling that dip out. I saw a propane torch in a photo?
In an effort to pull that dip out I have tried heating it with a map gas torch.
That seems to be working with the help of small bottle jacks against the inner fender pushing out on the area. Wet sponge for strategic cooling.

I will be back at it tomorrow so if any of that sounds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) let me know.

thanks all
and Scotty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

[pdlightning]

Your fender most likely was already a little buckled, or you got it a bit hot when welding and sucked in. These flares are not a " perfect " fit but are a damn good start. The way you proceeded is a god way to go. I always keep my hammer and dolly by my side and work the seam as I am welding. I also do not run beads. I just connect spot/tack welds. This way I can get it set in place, then work the gap shut, add another tack, work the gap back together etc.

Sometimes it is not easy for the grasshopper to see the forest through the trees.
Both of my front 1/4 panels had been replaced by PO. For the most part it was not bad work. Some smaller things I wish were better but it is what it is and I am getting the chance to clean up some old repairs.

Scotty you and Rick were spot on.
That was body filler, you can see how I removed most and thought I had something reasonable to work with but I am sure that added to what I have now.
The other side will be tacks, no 1/2 beads, only tacks.

After welding, I found the door gap larger. I found where the PO brazed the aft end of the 1/4 panel top and bottom had snapped. With out that tacked the metal was free to draw in.
I managed to pull it back and re-weld it with a reasonable door gap.
Now, I am working on pulling that dip out. I saw a propane torch in a photo?
In an effort to pull that dip out I have tried heating it with a map gas torch.
That seems to be working with the help of small bottle jacks against the inner fender pushing out on the area. Wet sponge for strategic cooling.

I will be back at it tomorrow so if any of that sounds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) let me know.

thanks all
and Scotty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

Although still in the early stages of planning with my steel flair install, I purchased these.
http://www.eastwood.com/intergrip-panel-clamps-set-of-4.html

They were cheap especially at Eastwood during a Christmas sale for 5.99 a set

They hold both planes plumb and level. My fabricator buddy mentioned using them, tig welding and then leading the panels in.

Old school, but cool if you know how to do it. Anyone here done that recently?

[bulitt]

Here is a thread documenting many prior threads on the subject-

Steel Install Resource.

[dlestep]

I believed that M471 option was a full fender, didn't know that they welded flares.
I learn something here everyday...





There's some other documentation that I have and can't find at the moment, listing
the GT stuff in 1970. It's just my memory could be failing me...oldtimers, ya know.
It doesn't matter at this point.

[gothspeed]

Early 930's were welded on, on all four corners too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

Yep!!! Early 930's had factory welded flares on standard 911 fenders (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here is a thread documenting many prior threads on the subject-

Steel Install Resource.

Cool! Thanks for posting!!

I would still like to see more pictures fo that bottom junction from current installs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). It seems to me to be a very important transition that is deserving of more attention through pictures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Madswede]

I would still like to see more pictures fo that bottom junction from current installs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). It seems to me to be a very important transition that is deserving of more attention through pictures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Courtesy of Series9 ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)


EDIT: Note the tabs on the bottom from the original fender remain. That's the way Joe does it, and he says to start from the bottom corners with your tack welding and work around from there, finally finishing up by welding to these original fender bottoms. (I know I'm speaking for him, but it's easier to sum up our thread on NARP than explain how to link there)

[ruby914]

Here is a thread documenting many prior threads on the subject-

Steel Install Resource.

Yes great link bulitt and thanks for putting that together for us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
There is my bottom junction. I didn't have so much problem with it. I they will clean up nicely.

[ruby914]

One more on how I did it.

[gothspeed]

Thanks for posting Ruby (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) !!

[RiqueMar]

Might have already covered this, but did you have the side skirts before you positioned the flares?