Subaru engine swap, Are you happy? Options

[Rhodes71/914]

Doing some daydreaming here...
Searched some old posts regarding putting the subaru engine in a 914. Figured it would be an easy swap, looked into it for a Vanagun but sold it before I had to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
It looks like a few people have put the EJ20T and EJ20TT in their 914s. If any of you would care to reply and let me know what you think, great.
Even if you don't have a subee engine in your 914 feel free to let me know what you think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Andyrew]

I dont think either one has them on the ground running yet....

I think it would be a great combo engine, but not very efficient for the auto x.... Its like a 944 turbo.... Gots a bunch of hp when the turbo kicks in... but below that, its so slow, you think somethings wrong...

I think the subaru has 70hp before turbo spool, 300 hp after...

If you can get the turbo's to spool up quick (I think Fiid has some quick spooling turbo's) then you can get away with it... Thats where a twin turbo would be better.. A single turbo would be great for more hp.. but the lag will kill you.

Asside from that, its very simular to the T4 layout... Low center of gravity, very lightweight. You wont add much weight to the 914... Its a little more difficult to install than one might think.. Its got a computer, and thats a big thing...



Just my thoughts on it.

[lapuwali]

Alternatively, you could use one of the 2.5 non-turbos. They make about 160hp bone stock. If that turned out to be inadequate for you, I'd be surprised if you couldn't coax 200hp out of one normally-aspirated, and you could always add a turbo later.

[charlesmac]

I rode in a friend's vanagon with the suby non turbo engine. It was impressive even in that big heavy box. Nice flat torque curve. Would even push you back in the seat a bit on gear changes.

charles

[silver2.0]

I have driven both the wrx, and the sti, and neither have excessive spool up time. If it was in a 2 thousand pound car instead of 3300, it would ignite the tires upon demand. It isn't like the old school turbos, these things are incredible. You are into major boost at 2500 rpm, and you are in the positive side of things by around 2100 rpm.

[Mueller]

I couldn't for the life of me think why no one would dislike thier subaru conversion.....approx. the same weight with more power (at least 50hp more and then the sky and your pocket book is the limit)


I went for a ride in Fiids new Subaru wagon today, it's a 2.5 turbo that rocks, the same motor in a 914 is going to be scary fast..............

[lapuwali]

I went for a ride in Fiids new Subaru wagon today, it's a 2.5 turbo that rocks, the same motor in a 914 is going to be scary fast..............

Indeed. My wife's daily car is a turbo Forester. According to Car & Driver: 13.8 @ 9xmph in the quarter. Faster than any car I've ever owned. The same amount of grunt in a 914 would give seriously short rear tire life. Single turbo, with just about no perceptible lag. Certainly vastly better than the '87 RX-7 Turbo I used to have, which had huge turbo lag, and required a lot of clutch slippage to get anything like a good launch. The Soob just takes off like something with an SBC in it.

[mightyohm]

Gots a bunch of hp when the turbo kicks in... but below that, its so slow, you think somethings wrong...

Hahaha.. So true, so true. You really have to pay attention to your shifts to keep the power there. Shift too soon and it will fall flat on its face.


(wrx owner here)

[airsix]

To quell the "not enough tourque at the bottom" fears I made this little graph to compare the torque curves of a stock 2.0 Type-IV and a stock (USA) WRX 2.0. Apples to apples - these are wheel-dyno numbers from multiple sources. The WRX motor weighs 40lb less than the Type-IV by the way. 40lb ought to be enough for a cooling system. Remember this is a stock EJ20T (in other words "worst case scenario").

-Ben M.

[fiid]

Aye... Project is not running yet - but here is some various info on Subaru engines.

I have 2.5 turbo Legacy Wagon which puts out 250HP. It is basically the same engine as the STi. The "regular" WRX is powered by a 2.0 engine. Everywhere else in the world, the 2.0 engines are super-tuned to get up to 280 (or more) HP - but doing that requires more emissions than will pass the US DOT laws.

The engine I am putting in my 914 (still in progress) is a 2.0 twin turbo engine from Japan. It's an engine out of the Subaru Legacy. I would say the Legacy is in the Crown Victoria size zone, where the WRX/Sti/Impreza is in the Focus size zone).

The reason (IMHO) that this engine is twin turbo is that it's not torquey enough to push the car around without boost assistance. I have read that the boost is fully ripping by about 1-2k. In my legacy it is not fully steaming until about 3.5k. I have heard that there is a Valley of Death on the twin turbo engines between 3-4k on the twin units.

As to how this applies to a 914? I think it's going to be fast - here's some numbers.

914 "STi" - 280hp - 2139lbs curb - 0.13 hp/lb
914 "WRX" - 237hp - 2139lbs curb - 0.110 hp/lb

Ferarri 360 Modena - 395hp - 3065lbs curb - 0.128 hp/lb
2005 Lotus Elise - 190hp - 1975lbs curb - .09 hp/lb

The technical challenges with this conversion are:
1) Engine management - Modern subaru engines are distributerless. - so theres no carbs'n'dizzy stuff here - you need to fork over some cash for an engine management system, or run something like MegaSquirt-n-EDIS (This is what I am doing).

2) Tranny! Will the 901 hold up? I'll let you know.

3) Motor mount bar - I'll post plans when I finish mine. TCDesign and Jon Watts are also working on one - but that one requires a mandrel tube bender to create - mine will be made of box steel.

4) 914 vs Subaru physical stuff: The turbos are in the way of the rear trunk in their stock location, and the twin turbo engine needs a gear reduction starter that is indexed around so it would be poking through the bottom of the rear trunk.

5) Car needs to be converted to watercooling. Fortunately the V8 folks have solved the water problem, but this is more time and monay.

6) Brakes. If you can get to 60 in 5 or less seconds - you also need to be able to get back down to a speed where you can actually corner. Solid rotors aren't going to cut it here. You may want to upgrade your suspension also. $$$$$$$$

Things that are easy (relatively):
Clutch and adapter plates - call Kennedy Engineered Products. HPH can order this stuff too. You will want a stage II pressure plate for the larger HP out engines.
Gear Reduction Starter - call a bug place and tell them it's for a bus.
Water Cooling - call renegade. If you are cheap, get the hose from renegade, and use a 92 VW golf radiator (although the jury is still out on weather this is enough cooling for this engine).

[Rhodes71/914]

Thanks for all the input everybody. Looks like I will keep my current 1.7L in their while I do some more research and start gathering parts.
I do like the idea of the suby engine and I hope to see updates from those that are trying it.