Front Rotor/Bearing Replacement Options

[seanery]

Quick questions...how much grease? What kind? What do I torqe bearing retainer to?

thanks!
getting a bit dirty! woohoo! (am I motivated? I'm trying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[seanery]

no good advice?

I'm surprised! Don't make me find my Haynes piece of crap manual

[jim912928]

Sean...just did this about 4 weeks ago. I'm at work and don't have my manuals and stuff. I can pm you later. 4-lug or 5-lug? Do you have the factory manuals?

[lapuwali]

I use wheel bearing grease (happen to use Castrol). Cram some grease into between the rollers with your fingers, and smear some on the races, but you don't need to use much. Chances are, you'll need to clean a LOT of old dirty grease out of the hub first. Most people use way too much grease.

On torque, you want the bearing just barely snug. My personal technique is to use a big screwdriver against one lug bolt as a lever to spin the hub in the opposite direction as I slowly tighten the retaining nut until I have trouble turning the hub. This ensures the bearing races are fully seated, and turning the hub at the same time ensures the rollers don't dimple the races while I'm doing this. Back off the retaining nut until the washer behind it is loose, then tighten until I just can't quite move the washer anymore. Pull on the rotor laterally to make sure there's no play, and spin it to make sure it does so freely (it probably won't if the caliper and pads are fitted). I'm anal enough about this that I repeat this procedure after driving the car some.

[SpecialK]

Yep, what James said.

I did mine about 3 weeks ago. I don't have one of those fancy-schmancy wheel bearing greasing tools, and frankly I don't think they'd be nearly as funny as getting your hands all greezy (Actually I wear surgical gloves. I know, kinda like taking a shower wearing a raincoat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Slap a good size dollop of wheel bearing grease in the palm of your hand and press the contact surface of the wheel bearing into the grease until it's oozing out both ends of the bearing (rotate the bearing as you go). I try to pack the entire wad of grease into the bearing, you'd be surprised how much they hold. Clean the hell out of the hubs, wipe off the excess grease from the bearing and proceed as specified by James for tightening.

[seanery]

so the only grease in the whole ensemble should be in/on the bearing?

I've got a wad on my front spindle. gotta go clean that off before I proceed.
I bought Marine Wheel Bearing Grease. Brad speaks of it for the Mueller bearings I hope it's ok for actual WHEEL bearings! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[seanery]

Well, I think i have a problem.

I've got the inside bearings lubed up. I put the race in, then the bearings, but the seal won't go in.
I think that the race may not be seating properly. Is it supposed to go ALL the way in? Mine will only go in about as deep as the race. It sits flush with the edge. This leaves no room where the seal is supposed to go.

I consulted Mr. Haynes, but once again, he's no help. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[lapuwali]

There's a seat for the races in the hub, and they should be butted up against that. You should see/feel a gap if there is one. As I recall, the seal should go in even if there's some small gap there (which will be taken up with the tightening procedure above), but the races do have to be pretty well seated, yes.

[Eric_Shea]

Doesn't sound like the race is seated properly. It should have a shelf/stop where the race is to be pressed to. I freeze the race and heat the hub/rotor to 350deg. If it's not seated properly at this point you'll have to find a press and finish the job.

I believe the factory suggests you fill the backside of the seal with grease as well.

I agree with the other posts. Only grease the bearings. Don't pack the whole thing full.

[seanery]

when the race is in is there 1 cm clearance between the edge of the race and the inner edge of the rotor seal?

[tbil]

Yep, need to tap the race further into the hub. All the way to where it hits the smaller diameter bore. I use a wooden drift, cut up and rounded 2x4, to the size of the race to drive it home. Will be plenty of room left to insert the seal once you get the race all the way on. I like to put a thin coat of grease on the race, inside the hub and on the spindle as well as packing the bearing.

As mentioned earlier, recheck the bearings after a few days of driving. Do this by lifting the corner, holding the road wheel top and bottom and yank, checking for play. Shouldn't be any of course.

[seanery]

hell, I knew I shoulda put the fronts in the freezer too!

[Eric_Shea]

One other thingy... it could be me but; I don't agree with seating the races "on the fly". Races should be seated firmly "before" you begin the bolt it back together phase. Find a press if need be but seat your races then install the bearings and the seal.

The factory proceedure should be fine from there on out. Meaning: Mount, install the nut and tighten until your nose washer can be moved with the leverage of a screwdriver. If you have to keep tightening and tightening to seat races and you're using your bearings to do this I'd think things aren't going well...

[Eric_Shea]

I like to put a thin coat of grease on the race, inside the hub and on the spindle as well as packing the bearing.

Yup... good advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[lapuwali]

I don't agree with seating the races "on the fly". Races should be seated firmly "before" you begin the bolt it back together phase.

I agree.

If you have to keep tightening and tightening to seat races and you're using your bearings to do this I'd think things aren't going well...

I don't quite agree. First, not everyone has access to a press. However, any sufficiently strong screw (like the spindle and the retaining nut) works very well as a nice, gentle press. Seating them as well as you can with hand tools, enough to get the seals installed, then finishing the last bit with the retaining nut, seems to be a perfectly sensible procedure. I hardly invented the idea. It's taken right out of the shop manual for most Alfa Romeos, which have a nearly identical front hub design as the 914. Indeed, the Alfa manuals even specify a torque value for the "seating" phase, then another torque value for the second phase (33 v 7 ft/lbs, if I remember correctly). Repeating the process later also ensures that after everything's gone through a few heat cycles ensures things are fully seated, and there's no need to remove everything, just take off the dust cap and go through the two tightening cycles again.

It may not be necessary, but I don't see where it hurts, and I can see where it *could* help.

And seanery, yes, you should have frozen at least the races first. I've never had to heat the hub (no really access to something to do this properly w/o endangering my marriage), but freezing the races helps a lot.

I don't grease the hub, and certainly don't want any between the race and the hub. This is supposed to be an interference fit, so there's shouldn't be any clearance for even a small amount of grease in between the race and the hub. The very last thing you want is to invite even the possibility of the race spinning wrt to the hub. The spindle should never touch the hub itself, and should rest entirely on the bearings, which also should not spin wrt the spindle, so you don't want that greased, either. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what's being said here...

[SpecialK]

No grease on the the races, and clean the mating hub surface thoroughly. Grease on the race or mating surface will cause a small hydraulic lock in that area (at the bevelled edge of the race) and prevent the race from fully seating. Light grease on the spindle just to prevent corrosion, and you'll roll happily ever after. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[seanery]

well damn. what a pain.

races are freezing, so I thought I'd do a little brake line replacement. Seems like the stainless hoses I bought at a swap meet suck. They didn't have the retainer slot in one end (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I just ordered a new set from Jason at Paragon and he's gonna rush it through so I get it tomorrow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hopefully when I go out there to put the speedbleeders and brake pads in nothing else will go wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)


thanks everyone for your help.


Expect more days like this as I'm trying to get my car back together for the FFC.

[Eric_Shea]

I agree.

I don't quite agree.

OK... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

(but I still don't get it... the races are either fully seated or their not right?)

...greasing the surface is straight outta the manual:

"To reassemble, smear the hub bore with 40gm of general purpose grease then press in the bearing tracks (races) to their full depths."

Oh well... I'm getting old (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[seanery]

Yeah, that confused me too. Mr. Haynes can be vague at times though.

[Engman]

Which 914 of yours are you redoing?

Yep I got some of those brake lines once - I believe they are for the 911.

How are you pad retainers......... mine were junk. It was even more fun when I found the DAPO had sussefully cross threaded the fles line to the hard line. Had to replace the hard line.

Good luck with the brakes - what is next?


M