The incongruities of a car show & "concours", ..and we wonder why we bother Options

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

At a recent PCA car celebration and (alleged) concours, the awards were based on participant voting. I imagined that to consist of presentation, cleanliness, and popularity. I had no expectations of recognition, although I did spend the better part of two days preparing the car.

The somewhat irritating aspect of the event was the resultant awards presented.
The bad: in a field consisting of a least a dozen 356s, including a couple of normal 356 Bs, the "judges" conferred the "slowest car award" to a 1976 914 2.0 . I'm not that familier with 356 performance figures but I'd be hard pressed to believe a 1958 356 B Normal coupe would be faster than a 2.0 914 of any vintage.
The good: that aforementioned 1976 914 DID win a very deserved award in the standard "concours" judging. It was all OEM as far as I could tell and was a past PCA Parade Preservation class overall winner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

The real annoyance, however, was the two awards given to a (remember this is a PORSCHE Club event) a car (keep in mind the 914-not-a-real-Porsche controversy) that was a Beck 550 spyder with a VW engine. Granted, it was well done, and I am sure fun to drive in the right venue, but, just what qualifies it as a Porsche?

I suppose with the relatively "mass market" approach that corporate Porsche is pursuing of late, I shouldn't be surprised at the general casual approach that car show organizers need to take to attract uninformed and mildly interested participants.

Paul

[haasman]

At a recent PCA car celebration and (alleged) concours, the awards were based on participant voting. I imagined that to consist of presentation, cleanliness, and popularity. I had no expectations of recognition, although I did spend the better part of two days preparing the car.

The somewhat irritating aspect of the event was the resultant awards presented.
The bad: in a field consisting of a least a dozen 356s, including a couple of normal 356 Bs, the "judges" conferred the "slowest car award" to a 1976 914 2.0 . I'm not that familier with 356 performance figures but I'd be hard pressed to believe a 1958 356 B Normal coupe would be faster than a 2.0 914 of any vintage.
The good: that aforementioned 1976 914 DID win a very deserved award in the standard "concours" judging. It was all OEM as far as I could tell and was a past PCA Parade Preservation class overall winner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

The real annoyance, however, was the two awards given to a (remember this is a PORSCHE Club event) a car (keep in mind the 914-not-a-real-Porsche controversy) that was a Beck 550 spyder with a VW engine. Granted, it was well done, and I am sure fun to drive in the right venue, but, just what qualifies it as a Porsche?



I suppose with the relatively "mass market" approach that corporate Porsche is pursuing of late, I shouldn't be surprised at the general casual approach that car show organizers need to take to attract uninformed and mildly interested participants.

Paul

It sounds like you have a right to be disappointed. At the least, they (judges) should have created another category for the Beck (not even a Porsche engine!).

Slowest sounds like inexperienced judges trying to juggle their biases. (My $.02)

Haasman

[Tom_T]

Paul,

At Zone 8 the Beck 550 could have been in Display only AFAIK - even if it had a "proper" Carrera 4 engine in it.

Maybe I should drop a Boxster/Cayman or 911 waterboxer in our 88 VW Westy & enter it there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

However, at our OC Region CdE in June they did do a "judges choice" overall for best of show, instead of the traditional points count. I don't think that's any better than what you experienced, instead of the traditional top points getter & rejudge any ties (although having a separate People's Choice is fine to have as a separate.

However, even the judging tends to be a bit slanted in Zone 8, since a certain 912 with a 20 year old paint job with peeling around the engine lid keeps winning in Full Concours - even when against better maintained & prepared P-cars - two of which are exceptional full resto 914-6s on here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The guy with the 912 uses it as a DD & does do an outstanding job of prepping it, but the points should reflect overall condition & prep at the Zone/Region level. The head judges seem to frown on gigging too many points for an "expensive" paint fix, but then IMHO the point count should reflect the owner's choice not to do so - instead of a small deduction.

BTW - I agree with you on the 356 Normal vs. GC powered 914-2.0 - now way the 65 HP 356 will out run an 85 HP 914, even if the latter is a slight bit heavier! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Jasfsmith]

At a recent PCA car celebration and (alleged) concours, the awards were based on participant voting. I imagined that to consist of presentation, cleanliness, and popularity. I had no expectations of recognition, although I did spend the better part of two days preparing the car.

Paul

Paul, this event was not a concours (alleged or otherwise). It was mearly a 'show & shine" with awards based on little more than popularity. Forget the event and move on.

When I go to participant or attendee (even worst) judged shows, I pay my entrant fee and toss the placard into the trash (I have a basic info card for my 914-6 for the public), and relax during the show.

It allows me the time to enjoy preparing the car without, and not have to kiss up to the follow particpants.

Enjoy the event for what it is. A chance to show your superb car to the public.

[billh1963]

What will really piss you off is a when a virtually new car is entered into the concours and wins. What challenge is there to a 400 mile 997 GT3 being all original and perfect versus a 30 or 40 year old car that has been driven?

I know...the concours experts will tell me how wrong I am and, technically, I'm sure they are right. It just gets me when popularity or "new and shiny" appears to win over hard work and history.

[tod914]

@ Bill, even better. The "newer" Porsche owners are the same ones who complained about having their engine bays judged in this chapther. If I can clean a bay on a 38 year old car, they really don't have an excuse. Waiting till it becomes just a wash and shine event.

[Pat Garvey]

from Webster "a show or contest of vehicles and accessories in which the entries are judged chiefly on excellence of appearance and turnout ".

I bring this up because many of us (me, Paul, James, Tod,etc) have been indoctrinated to the belief that PCA councours rules are the norm. They are not!

Yes, there are other rules on the professional concours level, and proper judges are teamed to deliver the best (Pebble Beach, Amelia Island,etc.) But these are pros, with megabuck cars. Equity enhancement is involved with these.

Remember when concours was well defined and fun? The judging chairman set the rules and forms and standards. Oh, and there were qualified judges.

But the Porsches were simpler then, and the judges more knowledgeable of almost all the pre-85 model Porsche.

Those days are gone. As hard as it was to amass teams of judges when I still chaired concours events, it must be impossible today. Think about it...how many really knowledgeable judges can you come up with to professionally judge any 356, 912, 914, 914-6, early 911....at a single event? And, if you do, how many will say "I've done this for over 40 years. I just want to enjoy looking at the cars".

If you go by local PCA rules for judging, they can be geberous to the first timer (mistake!). If you go by zone rules (if they exist, with the exception of Zone 8), they are tougher, but still don't prepare you for the Big Show - The Parade.

Read the Parade rules/demands for concours. For the most part they are ill-concieved, nebulous, and just plain stupid! Probably because PCA National has created a group of beauocrats to handle all aspects of a Parade. The locals have little input. They are there as minions, at the will of PCA National. They may help pick the site for the concous, but that's the end of them running the show. The concours is cookie cutter thereafter. Maybe that helps explain the low participation rates in recent years. Or, maybe it's the stupid PCR's.

Whatever, local events are just that. Rarely can a chairman get together enough knowlegeable judges for the early cars (we're old now). So, if it boils down to shown 'n shine/wash 'em/ peoples choice...we need to deal with it. Do your best for cleanliness and originality even though there are no reall judges. Show some of your goodies that you'e atained through the years (though never IN the car). If a contestant gets gaudy with 914 "things" and the improper placement of same, bring it to the attention of the chairman .

The good old days are gone for PCA-style concours. I'm good with that. Times change. We age.

[struckn]

I show a couple Vehicles and have entered in many different formats of Judging to the point that I have resigned to the position of not really carring to much about winning another trophy. Instead what I really enjoy is having the car attact attention and conversation. Also, better then a trophy are pictures. I like to leave the car and stand back to watch peoples reations and interest in the car while I take shots of them with out their knowing. I'm looking forward to showing the 914 when I get it back from the shop but I this year's a bust. Here's a couple pictures of what I'm talking about.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1210.photobucket.com-13764-1341885806.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1210.photobucket.com-13764-1341885807.2.jpg)

What ever the rules are you got to not take it too serious to enjoy showing. If you don't it will eat you alive.

[larryM]

damn few PCA judges have any clue about 914's - originality is irrelevant - the only thing that matters is if they can find a smudge of dirt or dust

- PCA Concours is all about CLEAN and ONLY about CLEAN

fyi

[SixerJ]

I've always thought the PCGB in the UK was largely the same. I joined the owners club when I bought my 911 in 1996 and was frankly shocked at the snobbery of the club generally (especially to teeners & lesser degree water pumpers)

My previous experience was the Triumph club where they used to run Concours De Tat (the most crap, hanging rusted out car - which isn't hard to achieve in a Triumph) right along side the proper concours. Frankly the tat was far more entertaining!

A few years in to Porsche ownership I was persuaded to become a regional organiser, each region has an annual street concours, which, in my region was more about the most lovely looking thing on the night than pure originality

Being young, many of my friends had VWs and a couple of them had teeners (I was smitten with their charms by this point) who I persuaded to come down.

One of them had a friend of a friend of a friend who had been building a GT clone that was just finished, he brought it to the show.

Judging was done by a small group members (not me) who truly loved all thing Porsche and not just 911s. Judging came down to a decision between a 928, 911 and the GT. The GT won, much to the owners surprise. At this point mutiny broke out amongst many of the members, complaints made that it was not a real Porsche & worse a conversion etc.

Even the principal of the Porsche dealership (hosting the evening) pulled me to one side and reassured me that GT was an exceptional car and was a deserving winner.

I'm happy to report that I have very little to do with the club (still too snobbish to my liking) and when the 911 was restored I did a deal with the restorer and acquired his black 914 (got to have something to play with)

I now have a mint early 911S, daily driver 914 & a real 6 project waiting to be started in the garage & the little 1.7 914 turns more heads in London than the 911 ever does.

I have one positive thing to say about the PCA. They do the most welcoming and best LeMans Saturday night BBQ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) and knocks PCGBs into the dust

Also Porsche UK have embraced the heritage fully, every dealership has at least one loaned older model sitting amongst the new cars. What's more, my local dealership (same one as above) has currently a 914 sitting in there

Stuff concours, Porsche snobbery & viva the revolution (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[GeorgeRud]

No wonder the cars and coffee concept has proven so popular! simply enjoy the cars and comradeship without the egos and attitudes!

[dcheek]

No wonder the cars and coffee concept has proven so popular! simply enjoy the cars and comradeship without the egos and attitudes!

I'm a 38 year member of the largest PCA Region, the Northern New Jersey Region. I have never witnessed any snobbery, egos or attitudes, nor has my 914 ever been snubbed. In fact, I've won many Concours events "beating" historically significant vehicles. A lot of it has to do with the fact that I obsessively maintained an "entry level" Porsche, while most 914 owners in the day drove them into the ground. Another factor is that people are amazed how I was able to keep a car so long. The bottom line is that I've received nothing but positive reinforcement, so much so that I would never consider selling.

Now that the model is approaching the 50 year mark, and the availability of pristine original cars is few and far between, there is even greater appreciation when I display my car. When you consider I live in the most unfriendly part of the country, the New York, New Jersey metropolitan area (not my opinion), it makes this experience all that more amazing.

My best trophy is the positive comments and appreciation of the car. Whether I win or not is not really important. I know what I have, and I'm glad I still have it. With this in mind, I'm never disappointed with the outcome.

Dave