Making the type four rev higher Options

[Trekkor]

I have a VW Bug race car with a type four motor.

I would like it to safely rev up to 6500-7000 rpms.

What is needed to accomplish this?

thanks

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net-1413-1370904931.1.jpg)


KT

[ConeDodger]

Extreme balance. Light driveline components. Ignore the tach (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[timothy_nd28]

heavy duty valve springs and chrome moly pushrods

[TheCabinetmaker]

My 2056 has the raby valve train kit with stock spring
It pulls to 6000 with no problem. The hd springs should get you 65

[DBCooper]

All kinds of drag racers spinning them faster than that, so [EDIT] why not a T1? Be a little careful, those guys think ten seconds at a time and weekly engine teardowns are normal things. You want to do something a bit different with durability, more like the buggy guys. If just say your goal is RPM's not everyone giving you advice will understand that difference.

I really like John at Aircooled.net. He's a racer himself and sells parts but also gives really smart (not that common) and impartial advice about what you really need. Tell him I (Paul Illick) sent you and he might be a little more diplomatic.... but probably not. CB makes lightweight lifters, aluminum rockers, lightweight pushrods, rods and their CNC cylinder heads, whatever you need. It's all there and not expensive compared to teeners. Do you have any class restrictions on displacement or whatever?

EDIT: By the way, this is good suspension information: http://www.aircooled.net/vw-handling-suspension-tuning/ The guy is a perennial hillclimb winner in Australia, for two decades now, in a bug. You certainly already have your own suspension setup, but it's always interesting to compare notes.

[Bills914-4]

Some might say the right combo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) , I would say to start , a good Balance job,
Dual springs , the right cam , & enough fuel & air , but hey what do I know I'm still
learning , Mine will rev to 6800-7000 rpm but stops making power around 6000rpm ,
cam is on the small side duration (we fixing that this summer/pauter cam)
I hope helps a little Bill D.

[ConeDodger]

All kinds of drag racers spinning them faster than that, but be a little careful, those guys think ten seconds at a time and weekly engine teardowns are normal things. You want to do something a bit different with durability, more like the buggy guys. If just say your goal is RPM's not everyone giving you advice will understand that difference.

I really like John at Aircooled.net. He's a racer himself and sells parts but also gives really smart (not that common) and impartial advice about what you really need. Tell him I (Paul Illick) sent you and he might be a little more diplomatic.... but probably not. CB makes lightweight lifters, aluminum rockers, lightweight pushrods, and their CNC cylinder heads, whatever you need. It's all there and not expensive compared to teeners.

It's a TypeIV so... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Steve]

Do they make a 3/4 cam for a type 4?
3/4 cam has around 280 duration which creates peak power around 6500 rpms.
That's what my dad ran in is bug with a 1641 motor with 40 DCNF webers
911 S for solex cam is similar.

[DBCooper]

Do they make a 3/4 cam for a type 4?
3/4 cam has around 280 duration which creates peak power around 6500 rpms.
That's what my dad ran in is bug with a 1641 motor with 40 DCNF webers
911 S for solex cam is similar.

Ha ha ha, your dad? Oh no! You don't hear that 3/4 term any more. I did that same combination back in the day. Started out with a 1385 (1200 40hp with a "big bore" kit) and years later it had evolved into that same 1641/DCNF combination. I used a Crower 30-30, with good heads really made that engine come alive.

[yeahmag]

A few key components:
* Aftermarket rods
* Careful balancing/blue printing
* Careful choice of cam/heads/exhaust

Build it as a system, not individual components. I take my stock rod, 2L head, 2056cc, WebCam 86a, dual spring motor to 6500 all the time. I worry about my rods though and imagine I'll dig in there soon to do something about it.

[Trekkor]

This will be for endurance road racing.
I would like to be able to run the rpm's up higher between upshifts and run up 4th gear to redline if needed.


KT

[mittelmotor]

That looks like the Buttonwillow ChumpCar race. You were running strong! I was one of three drivers in the EC-class BMW M3.

--Doug

[messix]

endurance racing? don't go for high rpm! that mix is big spendy!!!!

go as big motor as you can and build for torque and use the gearing or tire diameter to get the speed.

to make it live long spinning fast you will need high flowing heads and high quality light weight valve train that is very spendy and the rotating assembly that can endure it too.

if your set on doing it... do it with a T1 grenade built like a fuse!

[Mark Henry]

There are limitations to what a pushrod motor can do.
Try a shorter stroke, but valve float will be your main problem.

[ChrisFoley]

My backup 1.8L race engine is set up for 6800 rpm redline.
It makes peak power right around 6400.
1832cc displacement; 41x34 stainless valves w- 8mm stems; fully ported; HD single valve springs; ceramic lifters; CrMo retainers; CrMo pushrods; JE domed pistons with valve pockets; 10.5:1 compr.; lightweight rods; Elgin 7606 camshaft (300 degree spec).
I estimate it puts out 150hp peak.

[rick 918-S]

There are limitations to what a pushrod motor can do.
Try a shorter stroke, but valve float will be your main problem.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Use math. Shorter stroke with a balanced bore size. Calculate the connecting rod ratio to determine what the projected RPM range should be.

Lighten the rotating assembly to combat harmonic imbalance and the effects of inertia and increased effects of the weight as the parts start to fight the direction they are flying.

Light weight valves, duel springs and fat pushrods that don't flex.

That is the basics as I have learned and understand from my years in drag racing. That will get you to a high RPM engine. Making power in the upper range in a whole difference subject.

[Bills914-4]

You should post this question over on the Type4 forum , ShopTalkForum
you can get some more useful information ?

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.ph...efebd05b1e35fcf

[Trekkor]

I think our current set-up made 124hp.
Can't remember for sure~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYTCR_u6amo


KT

[Trekkor]

That looks like the Buttonwillow ChumpCar race. You were running strong! I was one of three drivers in the EC-class BMW M3.

--Doug

Yes, I drove the first stint and after the second, I belive we were in 4th place overall.
A few laps into the third stint we lost our oil cooler and had to retire.

Too bad, as I was looking forward to another night time stint in that 24 hour race.


KT

[Trekkor]

It's a pretty fun car!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i944.photobucket.com-1413-1371010426.1.jpg)

Looking to shift at 5500 most of the time, it's those long straights where I run out of oomph and need that extra push to keep up.


KT