 solids vs hyd. |
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| bajafreaks |
 Mar 25 2014, 10:38 AM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 7-February 14 From: Gardnerville, Nevada Member No.: 16,969 Region Association: Northern California  |
Since it appears to be a major challenge to adjust valves do most people go with hydraulic lifters when it comes to rebuilding an engine ? Its my understanding hyd. cams and lifters suffer with performance in these engines.
Is there an easy way to determine if an engine has hyd. lifters besides pulling a rocker arm, push rod, and then pulling a lifter out ? |
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Replies(1 - 18)
| Tom |
Mar 25 2014, 10:50 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,139 Joined: 21-August 05 From: Port Orchard, WA 98367 Member No.: 4,626 Region Association: None |
Short answer is NO. Most go with solids as they allow more power to be made. Both come with advantages as well as disadvantages.
Solids- more power, frequent valve adjustments, some noise. Hydros- less power, loud valve noise upon start up if not run frequently. The 2 liter I have came with hydros due to a rebuild by the previous owner. Looking at the work sheet for the overhaul, one may deduce that the engine dropped a valve due to lack of maintenance. It seems to have plenty of power, but if let sitting for over a week, it had loud clacking valves till the hydraulic lifters pump up. Tom |
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| Hammy |
Mar 25 2014, 09:57 PM
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#3
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mr. Wonderful Group: Members Posts: 1,827 Joined: 20-October 04 From: Columbia, California Member No.: 2,978 Region Association: Northern California |
I agree with Tom. I think the hydros are more popular with the T4 bus crowd. I had 1.7 with hydros and it was a noisy beast. Had lots of problems with lifters not pumping up, especially with oil age.
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Mar 25 2014, 10:03 PM
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#4
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914.
The Cap'n |
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| r3dplanet |
Mar 25 2014, 11:05 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 679 Joined: 3-September 05 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 4,741 Region Association: None |
It can be done. But you just need to be patient and do your homework. There's a great write-up here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...orvair&st=0 I would wager that 95% of all woeful hydraulic conversions were done with parts just slapped in there, not checking for correct geometry and not using the Corvair pushrods that lubricate much more effectively as seen in that thread. Check it out. -m. |
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| ConeDodger |
Mar 25 2014, 11:10 PM
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#6
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 24,028 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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Shorter than Tom: No.
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| Bleyseng |
Mar 26 2014, 11:45 AM
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#7
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 25 2014, 08:03 PM)  Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914. The Cap'n Nope. Buses came with them started in 1978 and I don't like them in buses with the weaker preformance due to the hydro cam profile. In a 914? Never as they kill it for being a sportscar as it becomes a 914 with a low reving bus engine. |
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| rjames |
Mar 26 2014, 01:49 PM
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#8
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 4,245 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Mar 26 2014, 10:45 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 25 2014, 08:03 PM) Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914. The Cap'n Nope. Buses came with them started in 1978 and I don't like them in buses with the weaker preformance due to the hydro cam profile. In a 914? Never as they kill it for being a sportscar as it becomes a 914 with a low reving bus engine. I disgree with the statement that hydros kill the 914 as a sports car. My 2 liter came with them via the previous owner. If I had the choice they wouldn't be in there, but my 2 liter with hydros doesn't feel like it has a bus engine and it still beats the snot out of a 1.7 with solids. (no disrespect meant to those that have a 1.7 :-) |
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| HAM Inc |
Mar 26 2014, 07:10 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 847 Joined: 24-July 06 From: Watkinsville,GA Member No.: 6,499 Region Association: None |
When hydro's aren't pumped they are hell on valve seats, valve tips, and adjusters. That clattering you hear til they pump up is the sound of the valve train beating the snot out of itself. Do it enough times at any speed other than idle on a hot head and the chances of dropping a valve seat sky-rocket, especially if it's an intake that's not pumped up.
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| bajafreaks |
Mar 26 2014, 07:53 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 7-February 14 From: Gardnerville, Nevada Member No.: 16,969 Region Association: Northern California |
Solids it is.
I had a Adrian built 2.0 in my last 78 westy with solids and it was great. |
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| gifted914 |
Mar 26 2014, 08:26 PM
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#11
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middleagecrisis Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 17-April 13 From: Australia / Brisbane Member No.: 15,778 Region Association: Australia and New Zealand |
Hi,
The solid cam has a different grind profile to a hydraulic. The hydraulic cam has a lower grind circle on the base to allow a slight step for the lifter to snap the valve in the lifter closed. The solid cam does not require this as it has a clearance measurement. setting tappets Solid cam profile for solid cams hydraulic profile for hydralics Mixing them gives problems DON'T DO IT !! |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Mar 26 2014, 09:41 PM
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#12
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Mar 26 2014, 10:45 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 25 2014, 08:03 PM) Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914. The Cap'n Nope. Buses came with them started in 1978 and I don't like them in buses with the weaker preformance due to the hydro cam profile. In a 914? Never as they kill it for being a sportscar as it becomes a 914 with a low reving bus engine. In California, '77s had 'em. That's "after 1976". The Cap'n |
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| johannes |
Mar 27 2014, 06:15 AM
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#13
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Club Porsche 914 France President Group: Members Posts: 3,084 Joined: 13-January 06 From: France Member No.: 5,409 Region Association: France |
Is there an easy way to know if my engine had hydrolic lifters installed ? The engine has been rebuilt in 1993 and I have no other information. It's a 75 1.8 and the case has no number stamped... Could this be a bus case ?
I have experienced loud knocking at idle for a few seconds. That happens when the car sitted a few weeks without running. It mainly happens when the weather is cold (around zero C). The car also runs on 2 or 3 cylinders a few minutes when cold and smokes a lot. Is this related ? When hot, it runs great. The cat has been removed and it runs with a Bursch muffler. I have dynoed it at 79 HP If lifters are hydrolic, must clearence be set to zero ? |
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| Hammy |
Mar 27 2014, 01:40 PM
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#14
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mr. Wonderful Group: Members Posts: 1,827 Joined: 20-October 04 From: Columbia, California Member No.: 2,978 Region Association: Northern California |
You can remove pushrods and use a magnet to pull the lifters out . Clearance is zero, someone correct me if wrong.
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| johannes |
Mar 27 2014, 03:44 PM
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#15
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Club Porsche 914 France President Group: Members Posts: 3,084 Joined: 13-January 06 From: France Member No.: 5,409 Region Association: France |
Thank you for the tip Hammy ! ...
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| Rand |
Mar 27 2014, 03:58 PM
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#16
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Well lets just say some things are cushy.
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| Bleyseng |
Mar 28 2014, 08:29 AM
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#17
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(johannes @ Mar 27 2014, 01:44 PM) Thank you for the tip Hammy ! ... And the pushrods should be steel for hydros and aluminum for solids so just look at those. |
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| Bleyseng |
Mar 28 2014, 08:32 AM
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#18
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 26 2014, 07:41 PM) QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Mar 26 2014, 10:45 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 25 2014, 08:03 PM) Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914. The Cap'n Nope. Buses came with them started in 1978 and I don't like them in buses with the weaker preformance due to the hydro cam profile. In a 914? Never as they kill it for being a sportscar as it becomes a 914 with a low reving bus engine. In California, '77s had 'em. That's "after 1976". The Cap'n Ok, as I am going by the VW paperwork as the GE engines first came out for the 78 models. My 77 bought in Cali, has solids as it's a GD engine. |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Mar 28 2014, 09:38 AM
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#19
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Mar 28 2014, 07:32 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 26 2014, 07:41 PM) QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Mar 26 2014, 10:45 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 25 2014, 08:03 PM) Hydraulic lifters are popular with the bus crowd because their engines came with them after 1976. I would NEVER put them in an engine for a 914. The Cap'n Nope. Buses came with them started in 1978 and I don't like them in buses with the weaker preformance due to the hydro cam profile. In a 914? Never as they kill it for being a sportscar as it becomes a 914 with a low reving bus engine. In California, '77s had 'em. That's "after 1976". The Cap'n Ok, as I am going by the VW paperwork as the GE engines first came out for the 78 models. My 77 bought in Cali, has solids as it's a GD engine. After a little research, I can see that both versions were avaialble for part of '77. The exhaust port was different on the GEs, but the head design doesn't necessarily coincide with the introduction of hydraulic lifters, which began in June or July. The model year begins in September or October. The Cap'n |
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