Some more Q's (Updates), Backfires and spitting through carb on 1 side Options

[Moneypit]

Okay, so I've sat down and started trying to plan where I want to go with the 914. I've got a few dillemas and questions, and could use some advice, criticism, whatever floats your boat.

Firstly, motor is a 2.0 rebuilt with slightly higher compression than stock, and has a cam set up for carburetors (I have the details from Dan around here somewhere). In the pre-Ethanol days, this would not have bothered me one bit. However, I feel like the Webers in the past were always a PITA, between throttle linkage, synchronizing, stuff like floats, jets, needles, etc. Now that Ethanol is being pushed more and more, I'm hearing these issues that it can eat away at older rubber lines and other materials, break down if it sits too long, cause rust in fuel tanks, the list goes on. So my first dilemma then is to keep the carbs, or ditch? Can I "ethanol proof" the Webers, ie replace any rubber with newer materials, brass? What about the floats themselves? I Really, Really loved the sound of the carbs, but I am wondering whether there is a better solution? Stock FI bits are long gone btw.

Following onto the question of keeping/ditching the carbs, lets say I did ditch them, would Megasquirt or something work well with the cam? If I understand correctly a carb-specced cam would have a longer duration than the stock FI cam. I'm wondering if Megasquirt or another standalone FI can take advantage of that?

Secondly, I have the Empi 8-spoke style wheels, which I really dig. How strong are these? I can try and get some pics of them at some point to verify brand and everything if needed, but I'd heard in the past the "Riviera" wheels on my old 1.8 weren't very strong, and weren't recommended for autocross or heavy turning loads. I don't plan to autocross, however I do like to drive somewhat aggressively at times, and do want to try and do a track day at COTA sometime. Are the Empi's fine for that, or is there another similar looking alternative that's stronger?

Third, I'm also hung up on paint. The car is white right now, with an attempted creamsicle LE style job on the rockers and doors. Bumpers are chrome, front valance is stock but beat up. At one point I tried to mock up some paint schemes, but with the body being white and me not being willing to strip the car completely down for painting, I am thinking that she's going to have to stay white. I like the 2-tone LM style paint, but I don't want to make a "fake" LM car. What other color combos might look good with white, but leaving the wheels white? The wheels are already white but I figured I'd strip them down and refinish them. Not sure I want the wheels to be trim color. At one point I thought of a blue, that would be somewhat unique. Also wouldn't go with the Porsche lettering in proper NARP fashion. Just 914 badging where appropriate.

Last (for now), I plan to delete the center console, but I want to retain the gauges as in the heat down here I want to be able to keep a good eye on all the vitals. Are there some good sources for mounting some engine gauges under the dash, that will still have a 60's/70's Porsche racing look? In the interior I kind of wanted to go classic Porsche racing theme, with the bare Rennshift, maybe redo the doors "RS" style with simple door pulls/latches, pull the heat/AC controls since I have no Heat Exchangers, etc. Might try a stealth or retro-look modern stereo for the longer trips. Any reccomendations for 904 style or similar gauges? Maybe a 917 style shift ball for the Rennshift?

[r_towle]

so,

no matter what you decide for a fuel system, you need to replace all the rubber lines with the new type that is designed for ethanol.

Carbs are all fine, just letting it sit without Stabil is when you have to clean everything in the spring.

Depending upon the exact camshaft, you may be able to run an aftermarket FI system....provided its a mild camshaft with not to much overlap.

Wheels are fine, don't worry about it.
I raced rivieras....they all hold up provided you don't hit a curb.
If you decide to go on the track, get a dedicated set of wheels for that...race rubber is expensive and its not super smart to drive to the event with race rubber....just wears out the rubber sooner, and its worn out on the street, which is no fun.

Paint...you call.
There is an online 914 designer tool that someone can post a link to, or search for paint or 914 paint scheme and you might find more than a few links to it...
you can play all day on that.

Gauges can be mounted under dash or in place of the radio.
CB performance, and many other VW shops have little pods for that.
There is also an a-pillar pod out there for the gauges.

Heat lever is different when you do not have a console, but I believe you can retain the console lever and use that, but you cannot use the non console lever in a console...the console lever is taller.
Still will work without the console (I think) though might not look like you want....

[Moneypit]

Thanks. I'll dig up the specs Dan printed out when they blueprinted the motor, I think he put the cam specs in there. It was already in the motor before the rebuild.

As far as Webers themselves go, where is the Weber Mecca? I know CB Performance and some places have rebuild kits, but where would I be going to find individual parts like jets and needles? Also, where to find folks that can help me go through and make sure I end up with the right jets and settings, and tuning them? I understand I'll need one of those flow meters that goes in each barrel, and saw some good tutorials on setting the idle screws, jets, etc. I want to make good and sure I don't end up lean on the top end and grenade the motor again (I didn't kill it, it already have blown gaskets. Motor had euro pistons and was running REALLY high compression. It's now back close to stock but a little bit higher).

My other big issue is going to be heat. I don't have heat exchangers anymore, and am not sure anyone would even want a set of 2.0 headers with no HEs. I am going to need the blowers working to help with defogging in inclimite weather, and maybe for defrost in the winter. I've thought about trying to work with an experienced welder friend to fab some basic HEs that will at least give me enough for defrost/defog function when needed. Oh, the car has/had AC, but I've removed the whole assembly in the cabin. The stuff is still in the front trunk, and I was advised to leave it since otherwise there is a big hole in the front trunk floor. Not sure but I don't think there were any AC remnants in the engine bay.

[r_towle]

for Webers, Google Redline weber
They are the distributor, and have all the parts.

For advice or even a rebuild, put a thread up and there are a few guys that will do it for you, just ship them the webers.

For heat, put a WTB in the classifieds and buy all the parts.

Rich

[dcecc1968]

Good questions. Looking forward to seeing responses. Below is the link to the 914 visualizer to help you decide on a paint scheme.

http://www.eggscollective.org/914visualize...visualizer.html

-Don

[Moneypit]

Good questions. Looking forward to seeing responses. Below is the link to the 914 visualizer to help you decide on a paint scheme.

http://www.eggscollective.org/914visualize...visualizer.html

-Don

Started fiddling with that yesterday! I've got some ideas, but being stuck with white for the body kind of limits my options. The tool doesn't have the Empi wheels, but at least using the Mahle's gives an idea of contrast between body colored wheels and trim colored wheels. If I did Adriatic Blue trim ala LE style and chrome bumpers, with no PORSCHE negatives, it gives a neat accent without being in-your-face. I think Adriatic Blue wheels might be a bit much, but if I do fiberglass bumpers or refinish my chrome ones I might try out blue bumpers to see how it looks. Also might re-do the existing vinyl with one of the many nice kits.

Back to the carburetors, anyone else have input regarding the Mallory Unilite that Raby, Tangerine, and others are selling? I was under the impression they come pre-dialed for a 914 motor with carbs and have the ideal amount of mechanical advance. I'm not certain which dizzy we have now but I've been considering doing the Mallory for a while, especially if I am sticking with carbs. There are no vacuum lines currently going from carbs to dizzy by the way.

So, here's my short list of stuff for the motor/carbs (immediate functional, appearance can come later) :
* Replace rubber lines in engine bay (Tangerine?)
* Replace center tunnel lines (Tangerine?)
* Pull gas tank, verify any leaks/rust, recondition or replace if needed
* Rebuild carbs, replace seals where possible with ethanol-proof materials (Weber/Redline)
* Identify current fuel pump/regulator, verify it's GTG. Replace if necessary.
* Replace all fuel filters
* Upgrade to Mallory Unilite, correct plug wires, coil
** External Oil cooler? (would need to get oil/head temp gauges working and see if car needs it in Texas summer)

Wish list:
* Tangerine horizontal fan (Because reasons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) , just wish there was a retro Porsche fiberglass shroud available)
* Triad muffler & valence cut

[Dtjaden]

Here is another source for Weber parts and rebuild kits: http://www.piercemanifolds.com

[PanelBilly]

Anybody else here have the need to start chanting "wax on, wax off" ?

[aircooledtechguy]

If you keep the Webers, ditch the X-bar linkage in favor of either CSP twist linkage, or Tangerine Racing cable linkage. Of these two, I like the Tangerine cable linkage the best but both are vast improvements over the X-bar style. Either of these will allow you to just drive it and not have to fiddle under the deck trying to get it all right from month to month.

If you go with a stand alone EFI system, Megasquirt will work with ANY cam you pair it with. Only the stock injection D/L-jet systems force your hand into running a specific cam. The new motor I'm building for my 2.3L T-4 that will soon power my Shop-car will have a cam with just over 300 degrees of duration. MS will handle it because you're not just using a MAP sensor like a stock EFI. You have the ability to blend MAP, TPS and inputs from a WB02 and the other engine sensors. It's a really capable system.

[Moneypit]

If you keep the Webers, ditch the X-bar linkage in favor of either CSP twist linkage, or Tangerine Racing cable linkage. Of these two, I like the Tangerine cable linkage the best but both are vast improvements over the X-bar style. Either of these will allow you to just drive it and not have to fiddle under the deck trying to get it all right from month to month.

If you go with a stand alone EFI system, Megasquirt will work with ANY cam you pair it with. Only the stock injection D/L-jet systems force your hand into running a specific cam. The new motor I'm building for my 2.3L T-4 that will soon power my Shop-car will have a cam with just over 300 degrees of duration. MS will handle it because you're not just using a MAP sensor like a stock EFI. You have the ability to blend MAP, TPS and inputs from a WB02 and the other engine sensors. It's a really capable system.

I'm going to eyeball MS, but for now I'd like to see if I can get the carbs dialed in and be happy. Tonight, I'm going to dig out the engine build specs, and maybe grab one of the carbs off the car to strip and inspect. Also have a second pair of webers that came off the old 1.8. I need to verify which models I have, I think they are all 44 IDF but one may have been 48's, which would be waaaay big for a 2.0 methinks. Also going to see what venturis are in there, saw some commentary that 32mm help a lot on the 2.0 sized motors.

[r_towle]

Replace rubber lines under the gas tank.

[Moneypit]

Pulled the spare Webers out of the trunk, and eyeballed the ones on the car. Both are 44 IDF. Ones on the car are 44 IDF 71 then 4 digits, and say made in Spain.

The spares are 44 IDF 61, and say brevettato under Weber. Are these older Italian made ones? Are they preferred? I tore one down and it will need a rebuild kit again, needs good cleaning. How do I verify what jets and venturis are in the carbs right now? The venturis and aux venturi tubes don't want to budge at all...

[Moneypit]

Update: had to look up the right names, but here is what I'm seeing as far as numbers from the spare carb

36 Venturi
175 air
? Main
50 pump jet
? Emulsion

I think if I switch to a 32 venturi, I should be gtg with a warm stock 2.0.

[Moneypit]

***UPDATE***

After getting some more time on the car last night, here are some major discoveries:

1) Fuel lines are new, hose clamps are new, fuel filter is new. Mechanic @ Stuttgart Southwest in Phoenix had addressed all the hoses.

2) Carbs have narrow Venturis. They do not have engraving on the top like the other set do, but they are definitely smaller than 36mm, might even be 28's. I'm leaving them alone for now until we can get the car inspected/registered to see if they'll run right.

3) I forgot my motor mount bar was bent! At some point before she went down in'04, I had hit a speed bump that was too tall and it bent the engine bar on the driver side. Maybe it's just the bolt that's bent, but I remember when we dropped the motor that the whole thing was skewed. I'd intended to swap if with the one from the 1.8, but I wasn't around to make sure that happened so here it sits. How much are motor mount bars going for? Is anyone making an HD version? I have some JWest motor mount bushings still, so I can do that at the same time.


NOW, issue regarding how the motor is running: The driver's side of the motor seems to be running rougher, backfiring, popping back through the intake, and missing under throttle. I think it is the rearmost cylinder on driver's side. What causes sputtering or backfires that come back through the carb? Dizzy is a 009, and should have 32* under full advance dialed in.

What I am wondering is if this means the ignition isn't sparking properly on one of those cylinders? The other cylinders are fine, but I feel like that back cylinder is the one that isn't happy. I'll need to pull the plugs I guess and check them, but it definitely seems like 1 cylinder is not behaving like the rest. Would different plugs or moving to an electronic point/CDI system help? How about an SVDA dizzy down the road, since the carbs have the vacuum advance ports?

[ThePaintedMan]

Can you show us pics of the linkage? What you're describing sounds very much like carbs that aren't synched, though you could have other compounding issues as well.

Have you synched the carbs with a syncrometer? If so, what were your readings?

[r_towle]

It's carbs
Linkage and or dirty idle jets, or both.

[Moneypit]

Can you show us pics of the linkage? What you're describing sounds very much like carbs that aren't synched, though you could have other compounding issues as well.

Have you synched the carbs with a syncrometer? If so, what were your readings?

Haven't done any of that personally yet. I still need to get one of those so we can get them all syncd up, but haven't had time to get one ordered. I get to see the car once or twice a week, and haven't had an opportunity to set out a whole Saturday to work on it. We're starting to move to the new house this weekend so It's not something I can get to immediately. I'll see if I can get one ordered along with the horn return spring, and getting a set of lock tumblers.

I've read the tutorials on carb syncing and think it shouldn't be any problem tackling that once we get some time and a meter. I tried adjusting the mixture on that side by about 1/8 turn at a time, didn't seem to change anything. At idle it seems to really shake on that side of the motor vs the passenger side. The linkage is a crossbar type, we just don't have the funds at this moment to switch to the pulley style. That's high on my list of things to do, we just need the car drivable enough to pass a Texas safetly inspection. Hence the horn button.

I did some more digging on Samba and elsewhere, others mentioned vacuum leaks, idle jets being clogged, or air getting around the air bypass screws. I'm thinking I should just get a big ole can of carb cleaner whenever I can set aside a day for 914 work and really clean all the jets and adjustments out. That way when we can get a syncrometer I won't have to wonder about there being gunk in the passages or interfering with the bypass needles. That and I might try to get some gasket maker or something to help seal around the manifolds and carbs.

[rhodyguy]

i would buy the synchronizing tool FIRST. determine whats doing what NOW then proceed. knowing what each throat is doing should help you. could be as simple as an offending air bypass screw.

[r_towle]

First off, remove and clean the idle jets....see if that fixes it...it might.
If not, then.....
Remove both drop links that tie the cross bar to the carbs.
Set idle with the idle set screw on each carb till the motor sounds right.
Re-install the drop links, but change their length so there is no tension on either one after you get it running right.

After that, get a synchro meter to do it right.

[rhodyguy]

does the engine smooth out when you increase the rpm to around 3k?