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> Paint issues 101, Blushing
scotty b
post Apr 30 2014, 07:32 PM
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Just a little heads up and info for those of you painting your own cars. Today I had an issue with blushing. In all the years and all the cars I have painted this is the FIRST time I have encountered it.

As I understand it ( Rick, please correct me if I'm wrong ) what happens is on high humidity days ( today was EXTREMELY high ) you have a battle between the solvents trying to escape the paint, and the moisture in the air trying to settle. Well in the world of physics, water is heavier than the solvents so the moisture gets trapped in the clear. I have painted on high humidity days many times, on rainy days many times, on hot days many times, and on days consisting of all 3.....many times yet for some reason today it happened. One of those lovely things about this work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The solution ( for now ) was to lay on a couple more coats of clear then let the fan run for about an hour. As soon as I shit the fan down, the blushing started up again. I let the panels sit until the clear was almost setup then cut the fans on again, this seemed to work. I'll know more in the morning. If it is still there, best case I can wet sand and buff it out. Worst case, all 3 panels have to get sanded down and repainted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

What looks to be out of focus is the blushing issue. In person it has a nice rainbow look to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


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Elliot Cannon
post Apr 30 2014, 07:40 PM
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My first try at painting was such a disaster, I don't dare even comment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Except to say, "I hope everything works out for ya".
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JmuRiz
post Apr 30 2014, 08:40 PM
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The panel was just too shy to have its picture taken :
Maybe the quick temp change along with 100% humidity did it...the windows in my garage are foggy today.
Almost like a super saturated solution scenario (say that 5x fast)
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Kirmizi
post Apr 30 2014, 08:50 PM
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How much have the paint chemicals changed over the years? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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rick 918-S
post Apr 30 2014, 09:36 PM
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Wow! The last time I had that issue we were shooting lacquer. (Man am I old.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) )

You'll need to kick up the heat to combat the humidity. Be sure the sealed surface is warm. If you have a heat lamp you may want to warm the panels. In a production operation this only doubles your time spent in prep. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

On humid days I would even solvent wash my body work and use a heat gun to warm the panels before spraying out any primers. You we had lacquer primers back in the day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Hey it's what we had and it would blush. We were more concerned about primer blush because that means moisture could be trapped on the steel and would cause problem down the road.

Based on what I'm seeing in the photo I'm not sure the blush is any deeper than the surface of the paint. Did you see anything on the sealer?

We used to sand an buff to remove the haze on lacquer and never really had a solvent popping issue or delamination.

Sux though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
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scotty b
post May 1 2014, 07:39 AM
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Nathan, if you guys had 100% humidity you lucked out. I'm pretty sure it was close to 300% down here....plus the pouring rain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) In fact maybe that deluge wasn't rain it was just the condensation settling down (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) The concrete floors in the shop look like they were hosed down with water from all the moisture


The blushing was definitely in the clear. I shot the first coat and turned around to hit the hood for the second coat and saw it. Every subsequent coat I put on it went away, then came right back. Apparently turning the fan back on after the paint started to set up did the trick. I came in this morning and it looks fine now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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ThePaintedMan
post May 1 2014, 07:48 AM
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Interesting. I had a similar situation when putting on my final coat of single stage on my car. It had never happened to me either until then, but I attributed it to humidity/dew that had settled on the car. By the time I put my last coat on it was already dark and the cool night air was really settling in. The paint is just slightly "brighter" in those couple areas than the surrounding paint. At some point I'll need to cut and buff it and hope that it comes out.

Thanks for teaching us hobby bodywork guys something Scotty and Rick!
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ChrisFoley
post May 1 2014, 10:48 AM
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I thought that slow reducer was recommended in high humidity.
It gives the moisture more time to evaporate before the paint starts to cure.
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scotty b
post May 1 2014, 11:33 AM
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it is. there is even extra sow. Neither made a difference this time. The girl at the paint shop said the phone has been ringing non-stop with shops suddenly having the same issue. The weather has been pretty off the norm this week.
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r_towle
post May 1 2014, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE(scotty b @ May 1 2014, 01:33 PM) *

it is. there is even extra sow. Neither made a difference this time. The girl at the paint shop said the phone has been ringing non-stop with shops suddenly having the same issue. The weather has been pretty off the norm this week.

If the phone is ringing...it could be a problem with the materials....

Rich
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ClayPerrine
post May 1 2014, 01:20 PM
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I can't comment on this, as I have only painted one car in my life, and that was over 30 years ago. I pay someone like you to do that kind of thing for me.


But I do have to comment about this: "As soon as I shit the fan down"

Betty is right behind me on a conference call,and I am trying not to laugh out loud at the image in my head of Scotty squatting over a fan....


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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rick 918-S
post May 1 2014, 01:51 PM
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OMG! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) serious topic on a potencially expensive issue just went down hill fast ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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Andyrew
post May 1 2014, 01:51 PM
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Very interesting.

Could the moisture trapped cause surface rusting later on? Just a thought that popped in my head...
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r_towle
post May 1 2014, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ May 1 2014, 03:20 PM) *

I can't comment on this, as I have only painted one car in my life, and that was over 30 years ago. I pay someone like you to do that kind of thing for me.


But I do have to comment about this: "As soon as I shit the fan down"

Betty is right behind me on a conference call,and I am trying not to laugh out loud at the image in my head of Scotty squatting over a fan....


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

That is why the blushing started again.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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ClayPerrine
post May 1 2014, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ May 1 2014, 03:01 PM) *

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ May 1 2014, 03:20 PM) *

I can't comment on this, as I have only painted one car in my life, and that was over 30 years ago. I pay someone like you to do that kind of thing for me.


But I do have to comment about this: "As soon as I shit the fan down"

Betty is right behind me on a conference call,and I am trying not to laugh out loud at the image in my head of Scotty squatting over a fan....


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

That is why the blushing started again.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)



The defecation impacting the rotary oscillator?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Sorry Scotty... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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bulitt
post May 1 2014, 02:17 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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r_towle
post May 1 2014, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ May 1 2014, 04:05 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ May 1 2014, 03:01 PM) *

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ May 1 2014, 03:20 PM) *

I can't comment on this, as I have only painted one car in my life, and that was over 30 years ago. I pay someone like you to do that kind of thing for me.


But I do have to comment about this: "As soon as I shit the fan down"

Betty is right behind me on a conference call,and I am trying not to laugh out loud at the image in my head of Scotty squatting over a fan....


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

That is why the blushing started again.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)



The defecation impacting the rotary oscillator?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Sorry Scotty... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

More so that once the rotary oscillator stopped the defecation may have continues to run wild and thus changing the appearance of the color of the defector and what was being defecated upon.
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scotty b
post May 1 2014, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE(Andyrew @ May 1 2014, 11:51 AM) *

Very interesting.

Could the moisture trapped cause surface rusting later on? Just a thought that popped in my head...

No. There are several layers of original paint, primers and base color, the moisture is/was trapped in the clear only and is basically just vapor. Re starting the fan took care of the problem.

Clay...shit yer mouf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Miustache.....nit a priblem woth the materoals. Get back onti the sandbix (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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sixnotfour
post May 1 2014, 08:37 PM
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http://andrew.rsmas.miami.edu/bmcnoldy/Humidity.html
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ClayPerrine
post May 2 2014, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE(scotty b @ May 1 2014, 04:58 PM) *


Clay...shit yer mouf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)



It's your fault Wilfred. You made the typo that put that horrid, hilarious image in my head!
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