996 Suspension Thread Options

[jim911sc]

Does anyone know of a thread that discusses the pros/cons/how-to's of using a 996 suspension on a 914? Many thanks...

[r_towle]

There is a guy who looked at it then went to a lotus independant a arm setup.

There is also a full frame car here with porsche modern suspension in the back.

[Curbandgutter]

Well this thread doesn't discuss it.....it actually did it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=206845

[Mark Henry]

The amount of work involved you could design a suspension from scratch. I'd look at what the off road baja bug crowd is doing. Same thing just shorter travel.
I'd also look at what the DIY custom supercar guys are doing.

[Cracker]

Rudy is doing a wonderful job...the link above. I only question the basis in doing so much work; if the end product would justify the mountainous
amount of work to execute the conversion.

My car has shown you can out-perform a 991 GT3RS (and Cup-Cars too)...even with the old (petrified) antiquated suspension of an original 914.
There are obvious upsides (cool factor being number one) but not necessarily enough from a performance stand point - to install the conversion.

T

[Mueller]

Rudy is doing a wonderful job...the link above. I only question the basis in doing so much work; if the end product would justify the mountainous
amount of work to execute the conversion.

My car has shown you can out-perform a 991 GT3RS (and Cup-Cars too)...even with the old (petrified) antiquated suspension of an original 914.
There are obvious upsides (cool factor being number one) but not necessarily enough from a performance stand point - to install the conversion.

T

Not to take away anything from your build, how much of your @ss-kicking on the GT3RS can be contributed to that massive power plant you have sitting behind you?


If ran ran same size tires, and same exact motor would your suspension still be up to task?

It seems we see once in a while someone taking a modern family daily driver Honda or Kia to an autocross and beat or damn near beat and old "sports" car like a 914. Sure a lot of it has to do with the driver, but can the 914 suspension be greatly improved or replaced entirely to see measurable improvements?

[tygaboy]

Weight of the drive train may influence the decisions but, if it were me and I was going to replace front and rear suspension systems, I'd take a hard look at copying the Miata geometry and adjust the pick up points to account for any track changes - if you're really after that level of performance.

I've got a tube chassis project planned after I finish my 914 build and I looked into suspension design pretty seriously. Pick up a copy of "Competition Car Suspension" by Allan Staniforth. There are also a number of free suspension design tools like this one: http://vsusp.com/?help=2d#about_contact

After screwing around with things like this, I came to the realization that copying a proven design would easier: you can buy off the shelf parts, etc.

Again, I'd base my selection on a similar weight car. Miatas get LS motors stuffed into them and big brake kits are available. Parts are abundant and cheap.

Certainly not "in the family" like 996 parts, but something to consider...?

[Catorse]

I own 3 911s, one of them is a 2002 Targa with a 3.6, tarret drop links, Eibach springs and sways, and a decambered rear end with Tarret dog bones. It handles fantastic.

My 914 has a 2.7, a 911 SC front end, inner and outer long stiffeners, entire chassis seam welded, coilovers in the rear, custom torsion bars in front, rebel racing bushings, etc. etc. Basically every suspension bit you can buy for the car.

It handles OUTSTANDING and while I have not tested it scientifically, will run away from my 2002 911 on a short course. Just no comparison....

[Mueller]

I own 3 911s, one of them is a 2002 Targa with a 3.6, tarret drop links, Eibach springs and sways, and a decambered rear end with Tarret dog bones. It handles fantastic.

My 914 has a 2.7, a 911 SC front end, inner and outer long stiffeners, entire chassis seam welded, coilovers in the rear, custom torsion bars in front, rebel racing bushings, etc. etc. Basically every suspension bit you can buy for the car.

It handles OUTSTANDING and while I have not tested it scientifically, will run away from my 2002 911 on a short course. Just no comparison....

That is all fine and dandy, but could the 914 handle even better with a different suspension?

[Andyrew]

^ I agree...

If you were at the WCC 2016 track day you would have seen me take my bone stock Fiesta ST and beat every single 914 on the track except for SirAndy's which was running full slicks and had 800lbs on me and an extra 120hp.

Conversely, I took my 914 and fiesta to a track day recently and felt the 914 to be way under performing in terms of suspension as the Fiesta. I had much stickier tires in the 914 but felt the 914 to be almost dangerous on the edge whereas the fiesta wanted to play on that edge. It must me noted that my 914 has all the trick suspension bits on it as well..


I for one would LOVE to have modern suspension in my 914.

Brittian Smith did it to his autox car with lotus suspension and its proved to be quite a competitor at the autox level.

[Cracker]

I might have not communicated my thoughts clearly or I was misunderstood. My engine, if anything, has a detrimental impact on my cars handling (2450 lbs!). SixAddict can attest to a cars pace and has been pitted with me at both weekends at Roebling Road and at Road Atlanta.

I have allot of seat time, on track, in a variety of cars but mostly modern P-cars and therefore have some semblance of comparison. My car, bar none, is the closest thing (still a huge gap though) I have personally driven to my P1 Prototype - it really is THAT good!

I am speaking directly from "road course" experiences which I believe offers a better combination of parameters as a basis to compare cars. Criteria such as: braking (from speed), elevation changes, high speed corners (+160 mph!). Auto cross is not my cup a tea and I believe a poor example on many levels - but that's for another day.

In short, in order to extract the most out of any car - much less an 914 - great commitment and skill are required. I am certainly not there - in talent or commitment. I have been quicker through corners at various tracks (with real data) then all but one pro-driven Cup Car. Street cars are an absolute joke - we are waaaay beyond those. My point is unless someone is the next coming of Schumacher - why do it? Just a thought from someone who actually drives at speed.

T

[Catorse]

I own 3 911s, one of them is a 2002 Targa with a 3.6, tarret drop links, Eibach springs and sways, and a decambered rear end with Tarret dog bones. It handles fantastic.

My 914 has a 2.7, a 911 SC front end, inner and outer long stiffeners, entire chassis seam welded, coilovers in the rear, custom torsion bars in front, rebel racing bushings, etc. etc. Basically every suspension bit you can buy for the car.

It handles OUTSTANDING and while I have not tested it scientifically, will run away from my 2002 911 on a short course. Just no comparison....

That is all fine and dandy, but could the 914 handle even better with a different suspension?

No doubt it could, but the cost for me would be a diminishing return to get very little in added benefit. If I want a car with a technically better suspension, I just drive one of my other Porsches.

That said I don't think the 914s suspension seriously limits the car.

[jmitro]

some people just like a project for the sake of doing it....even if it takes a lot of work. I enjoy seeing these "out of the box" projects.

some people just like the track experience and making the car go as fast as possible....by driving skills, power/weight ratios, suspension upgrades, etc.

I like both parts. I've been seriously debating whether I should use my low mile 996 or my (currently rebuilding) 914 as a dedicated track car. HMMM, choices, choices.....

[Curbandgutter]

I ended up doing a tube chassis for my project along with a 996 suspension because I had a

burned out 996 with full suspension, brakes and coilovers. I then saw that someone else

had done this and thought that I would give it a crack. I originally took a look at

upgrading the 914 with all of the elephant racing bushings, coilovers, monoballs, sways etc

and figured it was going to cost about $5G's. Well since I had the 996 suspension I

thought that it would be cool to use it and build a tube steel chassis to pick up all of the

loads. I didn't feel comfortable adding the 996 suspension into the 914 chassis by welding

onto sheet metal in a punching shear fashion, so I built my own chassis. I has been

and incredibly challenging project......but I like it. At the end of the day, I know that I

am ending up with a car that is mid engine, that is at least 300% stiffer than a stock

914 or 996, that has a 5" wider front and rear track than a 914 and has a 7" longer

wheel base than a 996. So, I suspect that if a 914 handles on rails.....then this should

handle even better. We shall see.

[stugray]

I had much stickier tires in the 914 but felt the 914 to be almost dangerous on the edge whereas the fiesta wanted to play on that edge.

That is in direct contrast to my experience on the track.
While my suspension was messed up (binding front bushings) the car would fly off the track with no warning. (like a slot car hitting you in the face)

Now that I have fixed the front bushings and dialed in the suspension, the car is VERY predictable and never does anything abruptly.
I can drift or rotate the car with no unexpected results or 'twichi-ness' and that is on Hoosiers.

[Andyrew]

I had much stickier tires in the 914 but felt the 914 to be almost dangerous on the edge whereas the fiesta wanted to play on that edge.

That is in direct contrast to my experience on the track.
While my suspension was messed up (binding front bushings) the car would fly off the track with no warning. (like a slot car hitting you in the face)

Now that I have fixed the front bushings and dialed in the suspension, the car is VERY predictable and never does anything abruptly.
I can drift or rotate the car with no unexpected results or 'twichi-ness' and that is on Hoosiers.

Interesting. I do know my bearings (I dont have any suspension bushings, its all roller bearings) are just fine. My issue may lie with my steering setup more than anything.

[IronHillRestorations]

Just get a 996, it will be thousands cheaper than trying to fit it's suspension in a 914. Besides decent used 996's can cost less than a really nice 914

[eeyore]

Just get a 996, it will be thousands cheaper than trying to fit it's suspension in a 914. Besides decent used 996's can cost less than a really nice 914

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[matthepcat]

accept this one: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/5962714496.html

Which I think looks fun...but the owner is dreaming.

Just get a 996, it will be thousands cheaper than trying to fit it's suspension in a 914. Besides decent used 996's can cost less than a really nice 914

[Larmo63]

There are already enough hacked up 914s.

Buy a 996.