Full concours or people's choice? Options

[914world2014]

Hi everyone!! I am the owner of a 914 LE. There is a big Porsche event approaching. I have been debating on which to enter, the Full concours which includes engine bay, or the people's choice. The car has been restored, but still 40 years old so not perfect. Any advice??

[Johny Blackstain]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
Bumblebee or Creamsicle? Pics would help & what kind of event is it?

Concours is a tricky field in that to me it seems to be changing- what's original OEM & what's not seems to be not as important as it used to be. What matters most I've found is how clean EVERYTHING is, & I mean everything. The more spotless the car is the better. Really a pain because you can spend months cleaning, polishing, waxing, etc... & get it dirty in less than 10 seconds. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[thieuster]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i568.photobucket.com-18384-1427908925.1.jpg)

Menno

[914world2014]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
Bumblebee or Creamsicle? Pics would help & what kind of event is it?

Concours is a tricky field in that to me it seems to be changing- what's original OEM & what's not seems to be not as important as it used to be. What matters most I've found is how clean EVERYTHING is, & I mean everything. The more spotless the car is the better. Really a pain because you can spend months cleaning, polishing, waxing, etc... & get it dirty in less than 10 seconds. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Its a bumblebee. Long long tme Porsche owner. This my first 914. Its the Zone 1 concours and ralley. I have to post some pictures. The car has won People's choice but never been to Porsche Concours.

[KELTY360]

If you haven't done an event before, enter the People's Choice and pay careful attention to how the concurs works. If you decide to enter concurs first time out, then be prepared to sacrifice lots of points because you weren't familiar with the standards. Good luck showing your car. Remember....this is supposed to be FUN!

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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[TJB/914]

Hi everyone!! I am the owner of a 914 LE. There is a big Porsche event approaching. I have been debating on which to enter, the Full concours which includes engine bay, or the people's choice. The car has been restored, but still 40 years old so not perfect. Any advice??

Advise!!
People's choice?? You don't have a chance, it's a 914 & we were just invited inside the gate now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)
Go full restoration. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Tom

[914world2014]

Hi everyone!! I am the owner of a 914 LE. There is a big Porsche event approaching. I have been debating on which to enter, the Full concours which includes engine bay, or the people's choice. The car has been restored, but still 40 years old so not perfect. Any advice??

Advise!!
People's choice?? You don't have a chance, it's a 914 & we were just invited inside the gate now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)
Go full restoration. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Tom

[Johny Blackstain]

Was this car for sale one or two years ago down in N. Carolina?

[914world2014]

Was this car for sale one or two years ago down in N. Carolina?

That's me. Have you seen the car?

[Big Len]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
Bumblebee or Creamsicle? Pics would help & what kind of event is it?

Concours is a tricky field in that to me it seems to be changing- what's original OEM & what's not seems to be not as important as it used to be. What matters most I've found is how clean EVERYTHING is, & I mean everything. The more spotless the car is the better. Really a pain because you can spend months cleaning, polishing, waxing, etc... & get it dirty in less than 10 seconds. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

OEM is not mandatory, so don't sweat that, but having all aspects of car clean are most important.

I'm entering the full concours only because I'm being forced to. I entered one for the first time last year and it was fun, but man, it was a lot of work and I said I was done after that. But my GF loved it and forced me to enter this Zone 1.

Some tips:

Everything for full concours MUST be spotless; door latches, a/c vents, under your steering wheel, underside of lids, the outer side of your wheels even the grease in the trunk latches must be spotless. At this Zone 1, they are including engine bays where it normally is just both trunks, interior and exterior. Whe you think you're done, you're not.

Don't worry about the chassis....they're not judging that at this event.

You must have a tool kit, spare tire, jack, or you will get deductions.

If you have scratches, even on the inside of the trunk or on the wiper arms, touch them up or you with have points deducted. As long as they're fixed, no point deduction (bring a black Sharpie for last minute touch ups.)

There probably won't be too many 914's there but still, you'll learn a lot and overall, it's a pretty good time to try once.

Google for more info and hope to see ya there. Hope this helps -
http://ncr-pca.org/index.php/club-activiti...ncours-tutorial

[Johny Blackstain]

That's me. Have you seen the car?

Not in person but I remember the ad. Looked pretty good & I think it's already on Bowlsbys LE registry. Really is the opposite of a creamsicle in that since it's black, all the dirt on the outside will show. However, trunks, doorjambs & engine bay hide the dirt better on a Bee over a Sicle. But you really have to clean every damned thing there is & that is not easy. Also pay serious attention to Big Lens post because he's spot on with those details as well.

[914world2014]

That's me. Have you seen the car?

Not in person but I remember the ad. Looked pretty good & I think it's already on Bowlsbys LE registry. Really is the opposite of a creamsicle in that since it's black, all the dirt on the outside will show. However, trunks, doorjambs & engine bay hide the dirt better on a Bee over a Sicle. But you really have to clean every damned thing there is & that is not easy. Also pay serious attention to Big Lens post because he's spot on with those details as well.

Thanks guys!! I plan to go to teenfest, its in TN this year. Still deciding on concours or peoples choice. Big Len, I believe I've seen pixs of your car, nice. How did you do in concours you entered? SOme friends said enter People choice and have fun.. The bumblebee does get alot of attention, drives great.

[struckn]

I show a car, other then my 914, at AACA Concours events. The first two years were to learn what it would take to Trophy and the 3rd and 4th year were Wins.
Each year I made the changes required and it's a continual thing making improvements each year.

I say, If you want to Win you need to show to loose for a while as it's the only way to get to the level needed to win.

[Big Len]

That's me. Have you seen the car?

Not in person but I remember the ad. Looked pretty good & I think it's already on Bowlsbys LE registry. Really is the opposite of a creamsicle in that since it's black, all the dirt on the outside will show. However, trunks, doorjambs & engine bay hide the dirt better on a Bee over a Sicle. But you really have to clean every damned thing there is & that is not easy. Also pay serious attention to Big Lens post because he's spot on with those details as well.

Thanks guys!! I plan to go to teenfest, its in TN this year. Still deciding on concours or peoples choice. Big Len, I believe I've seen pixs of your car, nice. How did you do in concours you entered? SOme friends said enter People choice and have fun.. The bumblebee does get alot of attention, drives great.

I won 1st place, but it was a tainted win as there were only 2 914s entered, so the trophy means little but the score is your real measurement.

And that's the thing that got my GF hooked to enter again is the rookie mistakes we made. Even with all the info we had, like Doug said, experience adds alot. Our total score was 215.8 out of 225. But we were deducted 6 points for not having a tool bag (who knew?) and 1.6 points for dust (wind was blowing like crazy) and another .7 for grease in the f and r hood latches (shouldn't there be grease?). But overall we did pretty good.

We attended a PCA judges seminar last week. It was held for people who are thinking off becoming a judge. Again, my gung ho GF wants to do it, but I'd rather not. But what they pointed to was PREPARATION and CONSISTENCY. How much prep work did the owner put into the car and judging of all cars MUST be consistent. If they can't find something wrong, they won't go looking for it on your car and not on mine.

But still, they'll find shit you never thought of, but like Kelty said, go out and have fun.

One more thing, your car looks good enough for any show, People's or Full. It all depends how much you want to put into it.

[designerguy90]

My dad long told me stories of Chicago Region PCA concours, Judge Wilma White would reach up under the dash and check and see if there is dust on top of the radio. Its a disease my friend; but as pointed out, its for fun, but it does get in your head when people do better than you. I placed 10th overall in Chicago Region Concours last year in my 968; it was hard keeping the huge engine bay clean for judges, but it was fun. I think the part that made me facepalm the most was when I read my scoresheet and it said I had dust behind my alternator.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

Do full concours so you can get the "scoresheet" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
That can be your To Do List if you ever need another 914 project (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Be sure to enter the autocross too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[warpig]

Screw the concours weenies and the choosy people!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)
Go for a drive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Tom_T]

Don't be afraid to enter in the Concours as a contestant - versus as a People's Choice, which may be more akin to who likes which display car best, & not carry much weight in the CW world. But also do what YOU want to do!

If your Zone 1 Peoples' Choice is actually judged on Exterior & interior by 2 judges, then is sounds like what our Zone 8 calls the Wash & Shine category, which is for folks DD cars, those with little time to prep or just for fun - but to win it still requires extensive cleaning, prep & detail work on those two areas. It's just 2 vs. 4 or 6 judged areas - so it may just mean working on more areas to enter Full Concours. I'm not sure what yours is like?

I'm a Senior or Master Judge now in Zone 8, but all zones have different rules & standards, & most think ours are toughest.

Case in point, our Full Concours is 6 areas: Exterior, Interior, Storage, Engine + Undercarriage with Engine & without Engine - which means everything underneath also has to be spotless perfect too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

It sounds from folks in your Zone 1 that your Full is like our Street & Unrestored (10 yrs. & older with 75% original at paint & interior) categories - where only the Exterior, Interior, Storage, Engine are judged. It was that way too in Peachtree a few years back when I was visiting Atlanta & helped out at one of their CdEs.

So I'll respond relative to those for your purpose. This link has a bunch of Z8 Concours docs to help you out (& surprisingly to me, even Peachtree had printed some of these for their contestants):

http://zone8.pca.org/events_concours.php

Also go to your own Region's & Zone 1 websites to look for similar rules & guidance docs.

If you can, also try to attend one of their Concours Prep & Concours Judging Schools for members - or a combo one, since it will help you immensely, plus you can meet & ask questions of some of the actual judges - either before or after this CdE, as there will be others too later in the year.

Only for PCA National Concours at Parade is originality judged & you won't need to worry about it now. AFAIK, all of the PCA Zones & their Regions Concours are now only judging on preparation, detailing & maintenance issues (years ago they also did originality). At the Zone level, a Zone Concours or year end cumulative tie-breaker MAY involve which is more original, but I haven't seen nor heard of that in years.

Frankly, it will basically be a cleaning & detailing contest, where the most anal - & luckiest for what doesn't get caught - usually win.

So you're basically cleaning & detailing your a$$ off for 1-2 weeks beforehand (unless you've been working on it already), then have someone else check everything (a judge if you know one), & catch those points which they find, repeat....

Then get on-site as early as possible, cuz you'll be doing most all of that cleaning, detailing & all over again after getting there. The judges will be looking in every conceivable nook & cranny that they can possibly get their fingers into

Take your first CdE competition as a learning experience & use your scoring sheets as "homework" to prep for the next one. Zone 8 gives all contestants in all classes & categories their score sheets at the end of the CdE for that purpose.

AACA & others are completely different CdE rules & procedures, so forget about them at PCA, & visa versa for PCA at the others. Prepare for the rules of the organization at hand.

For anyone considering judging, it's actually kinda fun cuz you get to crawl all over (figuratively) all sorts of cool Porsche cars of all flavors! Although it was only on display, we judges did get to actually see the innards of the 918 Weissach which was at our Jan. 2015 Z8 Concours (I put a post on here somewhere).

BTW SoCal Andy went head to head with Dave/toolguy with their 2 excellent 914-6 restos at that above noted event - Dave an old hand & Andy at his 1st PCA CdE, & both enjoyed themselves, the experience & the camaraderie with other contestants & judges! Both did well & had fun.

Your B'Bee looks nice in the pix above, so you have a great starting point - & if you put in the effort, you just may walk away with some level of award first time out, & can improve &/or rack them up from there.

Another advantage the we CW's have in going thru this prep process, is that we more intimately know our cars & where little repairs & maintenance needs to be done, as compared to folks who just jump in their cars of any type & drive, where it's more of a utilitarian thing than a passion or hobby.

Unfortunately my 914's resto/repair is a long way off from being able to compete anytime soon myself (& they won't let me enter by BMW or Westy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), so I'll have to wait or else enter our planned Cayenne S purchase whener]ver that happens. So for now, judging keeps me sharp, & so I try to judge at 3-6+ events a year, as my schedule allows.

Good Luck, Work Hard & Hopefully (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)
Tom
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PS - you can still go for a good drive too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Big Len]

Excellent info, thanks Tom.

BTW, the only judged event will be the full concours, not the People's Choice.

[Big Len]

GD double post.