Newbie Welding thread, Help me get started - what do i need and need to know Options

[DRPHIL914]

I need help! I cant afford to pay someone else to do all the little things that are cropping up on my Build-off thread car, and eventually need to do the longs in my other car, - also too cheap to pay someone else and then not be satisfied with the work, or the time it takes, it always seems to be that way.
So I need a lsit of supplies, what type of mig welder, etc etc. ,
where to look, or find a used one maybe...

any advice will be appreciated: brand and supplies, then how to practice, safety issue and advice- etc etc.

Thanks -
and the I can post my ugly buildoff pictures !!!

[whitetwinturbo]

.............you may be in over your head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

CList and ebay has much of what you need and this site is full of DIY threads

[DRPHIL914]

.............you may be in over your head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

CList and ebay has much of what you need and this site is full of DIY threads

LOL! Who says you cant teach an old dog new tricks?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

well, do you mean because of equipement cost and procurement, or just the overall complexity of the project? hey I am a 914world member! , and I have lots of threads and resident experts to lead the way, and I admit i have not welded a piece of metal for 30 years, that much is true, however, before I went to college, graduate school and became a chiropractic physician, I grew up on a farm, took every shop class I could in metal work, wood work, electronics etc. Rebuilt my first motor when I was 12-(briggs and Stratton garden tiller). Never got a grade less than a "A" on any fab or building project- work ethic and dad taught us well how to do a bit of everything-but that was typical for farm kids in the mid-west back then. I think that's why i'm good at what I do now. I've also remodeled 4 homes in the past 20 years, did most of the work myself- plumbing, wiring(step-dad was and electrician also) framing sheet rock, tile work , hardwood floors, etc etc. - you get the idea. Probably not your typical 50 year old. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

so i'm ready for a new challenge. that's why I joint in on the build challenge, although I will admit I didn't originally plan on the welding.

So (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) lets do this thing!

[jmitro]

For some reason I love welding; I'm not that great at it, but I can do a pretty good bead when I get the settings right. But it takes a lot of practice to get the right voltage, wire speed, angle, proximity, etc etc.

I have a basic 120v 135amp Hobart Mig welder with gas. Don't use flux core - it makes a mess. Get a good auto-darkening helmet and practice a lot before you start on your car. Thin sheetmetal is more difficult than welding angle iron or rollcage tubing.

A lot of things can be found used in good condition as posted above.

[Olympic 914]

Advice from a newby welder. .. So if anyone says different, listen to them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Get the best welder you can afford, from one of the big three. Miller, Lincoln or Hobart. Get a real mig with gas co2 / Argon 75/25 mix. multi voltage is good. 110/220v, but not necessary. for sheet metal use .024 wire. not flux core. .030 for heavier stuff.
HF has a nice cheap welding table. good to practice on.
If you have a good setup you can always get a friend that knows what they are doing to come around for the tricky stuff.

I wanted a Miller 211 but was choking on the price. then a buddy told me about one at a local pawn shop. It was exactly what I wanted. Still learning how to use it, but it will probably serve me for the rest of my days.

[ThePaintedMan]

Phil - don't listen to that guy. If you can do everything else you mentioned, you can learn MIG.

First and foremost, as mentioned, getting GOOD equipment is the best way to set you off on the right foot for a good result. Hobart and Lincoln are your best bet in terms of well-respected welders. Again, do not bother with flux core. Get good MIG wire and 75/25 CO2/Argon mixed gas. Get a good auto-darkening helmet. Get a leather welding jacket.

NOW, start practicing joining pieces of thin steel, before you begin welding on the car itself. You'll gain a feel for how easy it is to blow through thin steel while butt-welding, which you'll do a fair amount of when repairing the longs. You don't need to run full beads (and many times won't be able to) on thin sheetmetal. Instead, do small tacks first, then move up to 0.5 or 1cm small beads, spreading them out around the piece you're welding. Continue this process, alternating areas till you finish the weld. You'll begin to get an idea of how much the heat from welding can distort and shrink metal. Your goal through the whole process should be to minimize heat transfer except what is absolutely necessary.

THEN, when you move to the car, build some good braces (check the threads here for examples on how to build them. Make for damn sure you've got it braced well and your gaps are set before you start cutting things out and welding.

Other than that, it's not that hard. Just takes a little time to get the hang of it.

Also, by a spot weld cutter, or do a search to see how guys like Rick drill out, then grind spot welds. This whole car is held together with them, so you'll get really good at removing them.

[injunmort]

my only other contribution is safety first. good helmet, gloves and protective clothing. also never use brake kleen to clean welding site produces phosgene which is higly toxic. only clean with acetone or denatured alcohol.

[jeffdon]

To be a good welder, one must weld. So practice!

I got pretty good when I was doing up the car. Just did some welding the other day after not touching it for a year, and I sucked at it again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[iwanta914-6]

Personally I would invest in some welding classes at a local vo-tech school. Do a search, there should be welding/metal fabrication classes available.

[DRPHIL914]

thanks for all the info. , I will be looking into the classes. our local tech college has them for sure, so that's a good idea. next up, I thought of checking the local pawn shops for a used unit. I agree about the practice, my fist attempt at sheet rock work sucked. so did my first tile job. Then I had a sheet rock guy I knew show me some tricks. part of it is using the right equipement, not putting it on too thin, etc. but you get the feel for it. .

thanks,

Phil

[madmax914]

I have welded for 30 years, for working on my 914 all I use is my Miller 135. It runs on 115v power and you can dial it down in power and wire size to do any sheet metal work. I'm presently building motor mounts which requires me to weld 1/8" walled tubing and it performs flawlessly. You won't be able to weld a bead two feet long due to it's short duty cycle but for everything else it works great.

I would recommend buying it from your local Welding Supply store, They will assist you in setting up the machine for what you want to weld and they will point you in the right direction of what type of gas to use.

Please whatever you do DO NOT BUY a flux core machine that run about $200-$300 dollars. The weld quality is poor and they will sour you on welding at all.

If you have any questions let me know. I've attached a picture of what works for me the best!

[mbseto]

Personally I would invest in some welding classes at a local vo-tech school.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) This is a cost effective way to get some practice and feedback. And it's kind of fun. I made a 40lb set of salt and pepper shakers, way back when. (I think that girl was in my class...)

[BeatNavy]

The vo-tech class is a worthwhile effort, but nothing beats practice, especially, as George says, on thin gauge sheet metal. I did a class at the county adult ed place last winter/spring, and we spent a couple of classes on oxy/acetylene, a couple on SMAW, and then a few on MIG. Most of the welds were on fairly thick pieces of metal ("coupons") that don't require a whole lot of finesse or touch. What I'm saying is that it was all worthwhile, and I highly recommend it, but again, nothing beats practice with what you'll actually be doing. Learning stick welding was cool, but I doubt I'll be throwing I-beams together anytime soon. Get a decent MIG setup, buy some 18 and 20 gauge sheet metal, and practice.

If you do go the class route, have a "project" ready that you can practice on while you're there. I wish I'd planned it better and repaired my suspension console or something else there while I had access to a bunch of the tools and welders.

[MSHax]

One thing I learned is that a wire feed welder from harbor frieght is NOT as good as the bottom of the line Lincoln wire feed welder at Home Depot. Not much price difference, but the quality of work is a VERY noticeable difference. I'm not a great welder, but I'm an excellent grinder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[draganc]

For some reason I love welding; I'm not that great at it, but I can do a pretty good bead when I get the settings right. But it takes a lot of practice to get the right voltage, wire speed, angle, proximity, etc etc.

I have a basic 120v 135amp Hobart Mig welder with gas. Don't use flux core - it makes a mess. Get a good auto-darkening helmet and practice a lot before you start on your car. Thin sheetmetal is more difficult than welding angle iron or rollcage tubing.

A lot of things can be found used in good condition as posted above.

The Hobart 135 will do most of the 914 job. I have the same and love it.
If you have the time take some classes, if not, do a search on YouTube. A lot of great vids.

Under NO circumstances buy a Flux welder! !!! Gas is the only way.

Before you fudge-up your car, simulate the weld on scrap metal.

Have fun mister...

[ThePaintedMan]

Yep, the Hobart Handler 135 is right in the ballpark for just about everything we need to do.

I like what others said about the school - take something with you to work on if you do it. If not, start with something that already has damage. The steering pan cover is something that usually has some rust holes, is thin and needs some repair. Perfect to practice on.

[R_u_dd]

From the unofficial winner of the ugly weld contest, I would offer this advice:

- clean your metal surface thoroughly.
- get a good ground as close to the weld as possible.
- don't try and weld over rusty and pitted areas.
- be careful with thin metal, using spot welds and quick welds, low voltage, copper backer plates.
- weld matching thickness metals where possible.
- Butt welds are better than overlap seem welds. Use Rosettes where possible, self tapping screws and clamps.
- Don't get the weld too hot, but make sure you get good penetration.
- The 914 metal is tricky to weld due to the properties, so don't get discouraged.
- practice.

[Chris H.]

This is a very good series. It starts out SLOW, but if you watch it you will understand welding when you're done. There is more than one vid.

Basics:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzBGZaS1apw


Advanced:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMdQT-eswYY


There are several more.

Much of the welding needed for a 914 is spot or plug welding, which don't have to be pretty, they just have to be strong. You can grind them to make them prettier.

The most important thing to remember is safety. You can burn the sh&t out of yourself, you can ruin your eyes, you can burn your house down. But that's just like many tools that are misused. BE CAREFUL. Cover yourself, use a good helmet.

[r_towle]

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