patrick motor sport front oil cooler question, Is one oil line longer then the other. I need to cut the line. Options

[buck toenges]

So I am now getting ready to install the oil lines to my front oil cooler. Unfortunately the kit comes with one 22ft oil line. I would like to cut the line in two before I start threading the needle (oil lines) through the car. Does anybody know how long the lines need to be? Is one line is longer then the other?

I did notice that AA has a kit that has 2 oil lines. Does anybody know how long are those lines? (DR. hint..hint).

I also need to know how much oil I need to add with the addition of the front oil cooler. I have been told 3-4 qts. I plan to add the oil as the oil gets hot.

Finally does it matter if the hot oil from the engine enter the top or bottom of the oil cooler?

Thaks,
Buck

[mepstein]

If it's a setrab cooler, it's either direction. Others, I don't know. Every install is different. I had 26'. I ran one line front to back, cut it off with a little extra and then ran the second line with plenty to spare for my shorter, engine to tank lines. If you want to be more precise, get some clear plastic line at home depot. It's pretty cheap per foot and can experiment. String would get you close but real ss line needs a gradual radius.

If you are making up ss line, you need to get the koul tool. It makes a PITA job easy and even lets you reuse line that has started to fray. I showed Bob Russo who has been making line for Porsche race cars for years and years and he thought it was terrific. Worth it even if you only use it once.

[Larmo63]

I started at the front with both, extra long and cut them at the appropriate length(s) in the rear.

Not that hard to do, but they have to be the right length.

[SirAndy]

...

- I have about 16 qts in my oil system

- My lines are different length, on my setup the return line is a good 3 feet longer than the supply line

- I have the hot go in on top since heat rises so theoretically the cooler oil should want to go to the bottom anyways, check your cooler though, it might have markings

- My lines run next to each other through the car and i also have the hot supply on top, not sure if that makes a huge difference though

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[buck toenges]

If it's a setrab cooler, it's either direction. Others, I don't know. Every install is different. I had 26'. I ran one line front to back, cut it off with a little extra and then ran the second line with plenty to spare for my shorter, engine to tank lines. If you want to be more precise, get some clear plastic line at home depot. It's pretty cheap per foot and can experiment. String would get you close but real ss line needs a gradual radius.

If you are making up ss line, you need to get the koul tool. It makes a PITA job easy and even lets you reuse line that has started to fray. I showed Bob Russo who has been making line for Porsche race cars for years and years and he thought it was terrific. Worth it even if you only use it once.

I just ordered the koul tools for 12 and 16 an fittings. I am going to put the thermostat in the front trunk. is one line shorter then the other going back to the engine/oil tank?
Thanks,
Buck

[mepstein]

If it's a setrab cooler, it's either direction. Others, I don't know. Every install is different. I had 26'. I ran one line front to back, cut it off with a little extra and then ran the second line with plenty to spare for my shorter, engine to tank lines. If you want to be more precise, get some clear plastic line at home depot. It's pretty cheap per foot and can experiment. String would get you close but real ss line needs a gradual radius.

If you are making up ss line, you need to get the koul tool. It makes a PITA job easy and even lets you reuse line that has started to fray. I showed Bob Russo who has been making line for Porsche race cars for years and years and he thought it was terrific. Worth it even if you only use it once.

I just ordered the koul tools for 12 and 16 an fittings. I am going to put the thermostat in the front trunk. is one line shorter then the other going back to the engine/oil tank?
Thanks,
Buck

Often, yes. I think the line to the tank is shorter.

[SirAndy]

I am going to put the thermostat in the front trunk.

I was told to run the thermostat as close to the engine as possible. Otherwise you are always pumping a lot of oil around, even if the temp is too low to open the thermostat.

Mine in on (actually in) the rear firewall and it rarely ever opens on freeway cruising so the oil goes right back to the tank without ever going to the front of the car.
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[buck toenges]

I am going to put the thermostat in the front trunk.

I was told to run the thermostat as close to the engine as possible. Otherwise you are always pumping a lot of oil around, even if the temp is too low to open the thermostat.

Mine in on (actually in) the rear firewall and it rarely ever opens on freeway cruising so the oil goes right back to the tank without ever going to the front of the car.
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The main reason for me to place the thermostat to the front trunk was ease of placement. Can you guys give me ideas where to install thermostat to the rear. I have seen pics of the thermostat being placed close to where the brake pressure regulator is located. It looked like they got rid of the pressure regulator.
Do you need some sort of fabricated component to place it on the rear firewall or can you just bolt it up to the firewall?
I also have to hook up an inline oil filter. Do I bolt that to the firewall or does it hang off the oil tubing?

[mepstein]

I’ve read almost every 6 conversion and engine upgrade thread that exists and the common theme seems to be that no matter where the thermostat is placed, it works. Seems to go for street cars and track cars.

Off the top of my head, I might have this wrong but doesn’t the engine pull from the oil tank anyway. So if the tank has ~9 quarts, that’s a lot of cold oil compared to the pint of cold oil that is in the lines up to the thermostat near the cooler.

[Larmo63]

I ran mine in the same place in the front trunk exactly like your first picture.. I talked to James Patrick about and he said it would work okay as long as it is low in the car. I bought those same parts from PMS but I opted not to use the inline filter.

Are those pictures of the same Irish Green car?

[SirAndy]

I’ve read almost every 6 conversion and engine upgrade thread that exists and the common theme seems to be that no matter where the thermostat is placed, it works. Seems to go for street cars and track cars.
Off the top of my head, I might have this wrong but doesn’t the engine pull from the oil tank anyway. So if the tank has ~9 quarts, that’s a lot of cold oil compared to the pint of cold oil that is in the lines up to the thermostat near the cooler.

The oil *always* flows, the thermostat doesn't actually close the line to the cooler, it closes the bypass when hot.
Which also means that the thermostat failure mode is always full flow to the cooler.

Yes, the engine pulls from the tank but on the other side the engine constantly pushes oil out of the engine and into the lines.
If the thermostat is close to the engine, the oil only has a short way to go from engine to thermostat and if it isn't hot enough it goes right back into the tank.

If the thermostat is in the front trunk the engine has to push all that cold oil through the supply line, through the bypass and back through the return line.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mepstein]

I’ve read almost every 6 conversion and engine upgrade thread that exists and the common theme seems to be that no matter where the thermostat is placed, it works. Seems to go for street cars and track cars.
Off the top of my head, I might have this wrong but doesn’t the engine pull from the oil tank anyway. So if the tank has ~9 quarts, that’s a lot of cold oil compared to the pint of cold oil that is in the lines up to the thermostat near the cooler.

The oil *always* flows, the thermostat doesn't actually close the line to the cooler, it closes the bypass when hot.
Which also means that the thermostat failure mode is always full flow to the cooler.

Yes, the engine pulls from the tank but on the other side the engine constantly pushes oil out of the engine and into the lines.
If the thermostat is close to the engine, the oil only has a short way to go from engine to thermostat and if it isn't hot enough it goes right back into the tank.

If the thermostat is in the front trunk the engine has to push all that cold oil through the supply line, through the bypass and back through the return line.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

So does the ~ 12’ of extra line when the thermostat is placed up front, make a significant difference to the function of the engine or is it just a different setup with the same result? I have never seen a conclusion either way.

[mb911]

Pmb puts all of their t stats in the front trunk, and Cairo also did in his build.. I think it's just fine.

[SirAndy]

So does the ~ 12’ of extra line when the thermostat is placed up front, make a significant difference to the function of the engine or is it just a different setup with the same result? I have never seen a conclusion either way.

It is a good question and i don't have an educated answer.

The engineer in me thinks that having to only push cold oil for 3 feet from the engine back into the tank ought to be better for the engine than having to push cold oil for 20 feet.
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[jd74914]

So does the ~ 12’ of extra line when the thermostat is placed up front, make a significant difference to the function of the engine or is it just a different setup with the same result? I have never seen a conclusion either way.

It is a good question and i don't have an educated answer.

The engineer in me thinks that having to only push cold oil for 3 feet from the engine back into the tank ought to be better for the engine than having to push cold oil for 20 feet.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Better could be subjective. Lower parasitic losses from the pump, certainly. Since engine oil pressure should be limited by a pressure relief valve, everything else should be a wash.

As an engineer who has designed a lot of hydraulic systems, I would tend to put it closer so the relief valve has less tendency to pop to save wear and tear on the valve seat, but realistically that's not really a concern on a car with low driving hours. If anyone has a pump curve for one of the /6 oil pumps the pressure would be easy to calculate.