1.7L to 2056 Options

[sreyemj]

I have a 1.7L motor in my project 914 that needs to be refreshed and I'm thinking of converting it to a 2056 at the same time. This is a somewhat budget build, I'm on a timeline to get it back on the road this summer and as a student there's no way I can justify buying a 9k kit. After looking through quite a few threads on the subject, I'm considering having the case line bored and checked by Tims ACVW in Kent, WA (or maybe there is someone else in Washington State I should consider?). I would prefer to assemble the engine myself if I have time (depending on the rest of the car), otherwise I'll have it assembled.

FAT/Rimco have a 2056 short block kit including pistons and cylinders for $1800 and 1.7L head exchange with 42x36mm valves for $1600. I'm not sure than includes opening the heads up for 96mm cylinders. The FC 442 camshaft looks to be more for carbs, I'm thinking I may want a different camshaft so I can stay with my stock D-jet. Anyone have any experience or input on the FAT/Rimco kit or heads? Is there another option I should consider at the price point?

Short block kit:
https://fatperformance-rimco.com/products/t...short-block-kit

Heads:
https://fatperformance-rimco.com/collection...-heads-exchange

[Nogoodwithusernames]

I have a 1.7L motor in my project 914 that needs to be refreshed and I'm thinking of converting it to a 2056 at the same time. This is a somewhat budget build, I'm on a timeline to get it back on the road this summer and as a student there's no way I can justify buying a 9k kit. After looking through quite a few threads on the subject, I'm considering having the case line bored and checked by Tims ACVW in Kent, WA (or maybe there is someone else in Washington State I should consider?). I would prefer to assemble the engine myself if I have time (depending on the rest of the car), otherwise I'll have it assembled.

FAT/Rimco have a 2056 short block kit including pistons and cylinders for $1800 and 1.7L head exchange with 42x36mm valves for $1600. I'm not sure than includes opening the heads up for 96mm cylinders. The FC 442 camshaft looks to be more for carbs, I'm thinking I may want a different camshaft so I can stay with my stock D-jet. Anyone have any experience or input on the FAT/Rimco kit or heads? Is there another option I should consider at the price point?

Short block kit:
https://fatperformance-rimco.com/products/t...short-block-kit

Heads:
https://fatperformance-rimco.com/collection...-heads-exchange

I'll share some of what I have learned so far from reading through lots of threads while planning and starting my 1.7 stock build, though I'm still a rookie with T4 so take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think you'd need a whole kit, you can have better selections of parts and not buy what you don't need if you split it up.

You can have your crankshaft reground to the 2.0l spec and source a set of stock 2.0l rods for, I'm assuming, less that brand new ones.

You can get all your gaskets from the T4 store (LN Engineering) or Aircooled.net or any number of other sources. Grab a set of AA pistons and cylinders. I don't have any advise on the cam but if you do some reading other people have done the 2056 with D-Jet I just don't remember what they used.

[Dion]

I was fortunate to start with a 2.0 block.
Here is what got me to a “2056”.


2.0 case, Original crank, 96mm JE pistons, AA cylinders, "fat" performance cam 413 lift,258 duration, Melling oil pump, 009 distributor with Mallory electronic sensor.

My build was under 3K (9 yrs ago pricing) and labor was myself and a friend. Obviously you need a couple more steps to get to the 2.0 mark.

An enjoyable engine. You can do it. The cam I used was compatible with d-jet. However mine ran CIS at the time.

Good luck with the build, hope you find the time. Good luck with the studying too!

[Chris914n6]

You can do a 1911 and only need the 96mm P&C. 1.8L heads are a plus. Will work with the Djet with a little MPS tuning. Heck of a lot cheaper for not much less power. The real HP in a 2056 comes from the 2.0L heads.

[barefoot]

I had my 2L case line bored by John Slack in Olympia Wa. He purchased the new main bearings and did the new bores specifically around the size of these bearings. He also fly cut the cylinder base spigots, and had my crank re-ground to first undersize and did the conversion for tapped oil gallery plugs.
He rebuilds Rolls Royce aircraft engines and I was very impressed with his tooling.
He goes by "Jesco Reient" here

[sreyemj]

You can do a 1911 and only need the 96mm P&C. 1.8L heads are a plus. Will work with the Djet with a little MPS tuning. Heck of a lot cheaper for not much less power. The real HP in a 2056 comes from the 2.0L heads.

I have no idea of the engine's history so I'm definitely going to be splitting the case. At that point you might as well do a 71mm crank and 2.0L rods. Will definitely need to address the heads, FAT/Rimco has several options that refurbish the 1.7L heads but I would like to hear from anyone that has gone that route. I think the 42x36mm valves are bigger than the stock 1.7L valves?

https://fatperformance-rimco.com/collection...-heads-exchange

https://fatperformance-rimco.com/collection...-heads-exchange

I had my 2L case line bored by John Slack in Olympia Wa. He purchased the new main bearings and did the new bores specifically around the size of these bearings. He also fly cut the cylinder base spigots, and had my crank re-ground to first undersize and did the conversion for tapped oil gallery plugs.
He rebuilds Rolls Royce aircraft engines and I was very impressed with his tooling.
He goes by "Jesco Reient" here

Great, I'll try getting in touch with him. Would be great to work with a member here.

[BeatNavy]

This is really good read. Seems like you already know most of this, but Jake puts it all in one place well organized: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=1529209

I bought a machined (align bored, decked) case from Jesco a couple of years ago (it then went to Michigan and McMark turned it into a 2258. It's on my garage floor waiting to go into my car when spring comes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). His machining skills appear to be epic, and he seemed like a really good guy in the few interactions I had with him. He's not that active here, but you can PM him I'm sure.

I built a 2056 from a 1.7L last year. I didn't go "exotic," but I also didn't cut any corners. I spent over $5K in parts and services, including (biggest ticket items):

1. Brand new 2.0 AA (ceramic coated) heads built by Len Hoffman: $1700
2. Raby 9950 Cam kit: $950
3. P&C: roughly $500 (my records are screwed up here because I swapped from valve relief JE to flat top KB at the end, and I don't seem to have cost on the KB pistons)
4. 2.0 H beam connection rods: $300
5. 71mm crankshaft $300
6. New pushrod tubes: $100
7. Case machining, flywheel resurfacing, parts balancing, etc. $400
8. Rocker machining and miscellaneous tools, shims, etc.: $250

etc. etc.

You can definitely do it way cheaper, and I know you're on a budget, but I am curious as to what is reasonable economical rebuild (obviously depends on what you can reuse). When I did this rebuild my thought process was "don't skimp ANYWHERE."

Right now I've got a 2 liter on an engine stand partially torn down. I'm toying with trying to do an economical rebuild on it, just for fun. My thought process on this one would be "I don't want to spend $5K on an engine I don't need."

[sreyemj]

1. Brand new 2.0 AA (ceramic coated) heads built by Len Hoffman: $1700

Good info, I've read that thread and it's definitely helpful. Are the $1700 Hoffman heads actually available somewhere? I thought they were over 3k now.

It's definitely easier to do a build for 5k, but that's really pushing it for my budget.

[BeatNavy]

I went back and found my HAM invoice, and it's actually:

1. AAP 2.0 914 heads, 44mm x 38mm valves, $1425.
2. Ceramic coating ports and combustion chambers: $225

It sure appears my total was $1650 (with Len supplying the heads), but I agree it's worth verifying. If you have questions reach out to Len and ask him for his help. He's very helpful and a tremendously nice guy as well.

[BeatNavy]

I just checked Len's website: https://newsite.hamheads.com/2017/07/01/aa-...9144-knockoffs/

I'm not sure they're making these anymore, but as of January Len had a couple pair still available.

[rbzymek]

sreyemj,
You may want to consider a 2056 SCAT long block for about $3600. I replaced my worn out 1.8 last year and I am pleased with the result. If you are short on time it will get back on the road sooner.

[Bleyseng]

This is really good read. Seems like you already know most of this, but Jake puts it all in one place well organized: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=1529209

I bought a machined (align bored, decked) case from Jesco a couple of years ago (it then went to Michigan and McMark turned it into a 2258. It's on my garage floor waiting to go into my car when spring comes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). His machining skills appear to be epic, and he seemed like a really good guy in the few interactions I had with him. He's not that active here, but you can PM him I'm sure.

I built a 2056 from a 1.7L last year. I didn't go "exotic," but I also didn't cut any corners. I spent over $5K in parts and services, including (biggest ticket items):

1. Brand new 2.0 AA (ceramic coated) heads built by Len Hoffman: $1700
2. Raby 9950 Cam kit: $950
3. P&C: roughly $500 (my records are screwed up here because I swapped from valve relief JE to flat top KB at the end, and I don't seem to have cost on the KB pistons)
4. 2.0 H beam connection rods: $300
5. 71mm crankshaft $300
6. New pushrod tubes: $100
7. Case machining, flywheel resurfacing, parts balancing, etc. $400
8. Rocker machining and miscellaneous tools, shims, etc.: $250

etc. etc.

You can definitely do it way cheaper, and I know you're on a budget, but I am curious as to what is reasonable economical rebuild (obviously depends on what you can reuse). When I did this rebuild my thought process was "don't skimp ANYWHERE."

Right now I've got a 2 liter on an engine stand partially torn down. I'm toying with trying to do an economical rebuild on it, just for fun. My thought process on this one would be "I don't want to spend $5K on an engine I don't need."

This is exactly the way I would recommend going too. Have the case checked first before having it line bored as most 914 1.7l cases don't need it. There are lots of good used 2.0L rods around as buses used them too. Len's heads are top notch and the way to go. (I have them)

[914_teener]

What induction will you be using?

The stock FI 1.7 won't be enough for the 2056.

[sreyemj]

I just checked Len's website: https://newsite.hamheads.com/2017/07/01/aa-...9144-knockoffs/

I'm not sure they're making these anymore, but as of January Len had a couple pair still available.

Thanks, talked to Len this afternoon and purchased a pair. Price was the same as yours, sounds like he has one more set available.

What induction will you be using?

The stock FI 1.7 won't be enough for the 2056.

I thought D-jet could be used with a 2056? I'm debating a set of duel Weber 40s or the Dub Shop megasquirt setup (local to me in Washington State). The MS setup seems like an excellent system, but I really need to find out how much the rest of the engine will cost before deciding if the Dub Shop kit is an option.

I had also thought about using the D-jet for now (and installing a FI cam) and then adding megasquirt later after I saved some more money. I need to let Len know what compression ratio and cam I will be using before he can finish the heads, so any suggestions for cam FI or carburated cam choices are appreciated.

[mepstein]

I just checked Len's website: https://newsite.hamheads.com/2017/07/01/aa-...9144-knockoffs/

I'm not sure they're making these anymore, but as of January Len had a couple pair still available.

Thanks, talked to Len this afternoon and purchased a pair. Price was the same as yours, sounds like he has one more set available.

What induction will you be using?

The stock FI 1.7 won't be enough for the 2056.

I thought D-jet could be used with a 2056? I'm debating a set of duel Weber 40s or the Dub Shop megasquirt setup (local to me in Washington State). The MS setup seems like an excellent system, but I really need to find out how much the rest of the engine will cost before deciding if the Dub Shop kit is an option.

I had also thought about using the D-jet for now (and installing a FI cam) and then adding megasquirt later after I saved some more money. I need to let Len know what compression ratio and cam I will be using before he can finish the heads, so any suggestions for cam FI or carburated cam choices are appreciated.

I would ask Len (about the cam). He know type 4 engines better than most.

[BeatNavy]

Sweet, glad you got in contact with Len.

You can use D-Jet for 2056, but you need to use those D-Jet components specific to the 2.0 (versus the 1.7). Some components work for both, but many of them are specific to either 1.7 or 2.0. Then you need to be prepared to tune the MPS slightly to handle increased displacement. Many here have done it, but you just need to be aware of the requirement.

Yes, you can use an FI-compatible cam and change out induction systems later (like going to MS or something else).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[914_teener]

Sweet, glad you got in contact with Len.

You can use D-Jet for 2056, but you need to use those D-Jet components specific to the 2.0 (versus the 1.7). Some components work for both, but many of them are specific to either 1.7 or 2.0. Then you need to be prepared to tune the MPS slightly to handle increased displacement. Many here have done it, but you just need to be aware of the requirement.

Yes, you can use an FI-compatible cam and change out induction systems later (like going to MS or something else).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

What Rob said.


Figure ablut 1k for a 2.0 setup all said and done.

[Bleyseng]

You need to figure out what HP you want. 2056 w/stock FI cam=95hp. 2056 w/Raby 9950 cam =120hp , both with Djet FI

[sreyemj]

What Rob said.


Figure ablut 1k for a 2.0 setup all said and done.

I didn't realize the 2.0 setup was so different from the 1.7L, if it ends of costing 1k to retain the D-jet than I'll definitely be doing something else.

You need to figure out what HP you want. 2056 w/stock FI cam=95hp. 2056 w/Raby 9950 cam =120hp , both with Djet FI

I'm hoping for around 120HP, seems to be a great level for the car.

[Bleyseng]

Where are you in Washington as I am in Seattle. We could meet up so you can drive my car to see how you like the 120 hp setup.