Starting, Please Help... Please Options

[Ross]

Reader Beware – the following content may be not be suitable for all audiences

If you have the ware withal to make it through this painful post; I thank you very much. I am looking for any advice based on your knowledge and experiences.

Ok, so here I go – recently our 1972 914 1.7 didn’t’ start. When I turned the key, I heard the fuel pump engage, all interior lights worked, etc… but the starter didn’t turn over. Note - I had one of these 914s when I was a teenager and remembered when the ignition switch went bad and I felt like this was probably the problem again.
I took it to our local Porsche expert and told them what I felt the problem was. After they did their research, they called me and said that it wasn’t’ the ignition switch… it was the starter. Great news… probably less labor than installing an ignition switch, I felt. This is when “the fun” starts:

1. After they installed the new starter, I received a call that the new starter was in. That they had installed a brand new Bosche starter as this was better than all of the remanned starters that were out there. Cool I thought… a little more expensive, but they are going the extra mile. So, they installed it.
2. So, after installing they called and told me that the new starter was in, but upon engaging the starter that there is a terrible grinding noise.
3. When I went to pick the car up, it was further explained to me that the reason for the grinding noise was that the gearing in the new starter was no longer fitting into the old flywheel properly anymore. Made sense I thought. I was also told that it will probably quiet down as the gear and the flywheel began to “marry together”. But the best option would be to put a new flywheel in so that I was dealing with new-on-new. Made sense I thought.
4. I started the car at the repair shop to drive it home and it sounded terrible.. crazy grinding.
5. I got home and decided that the best bet was to have this repair shop replace the flywheel as well. I stated it once right after I parked the car and then I never/started drove the car after this.
6. I called my favorite 914 expert and explained the situation to him. He immediately asked what the part number of the new starter was that had been installed by the local repair shop….
7. I looked at the invoice and told him an SR15N… “a brand new Bosche”. He immediately explained only the SR17X was the right starter. And that the grinding/symptoms were typical of installing a SR15N starter.
8. I really respect this person/company and the advice given to me, so decided to purchase the SR17X starter.
9. Side note – I have also installed starters in the 914 when I was a teenager… and because of many reasons, I decided it was best that I would just install the new starter myself.
10. So I installed the SR17X starter with no issues… I was feeling good
11. I cranked the car, it started with no problems… beautiful… the terrible grinding? no mas. I’m feeling good… feeling competent. Das ist very gut
12. I shut the car off and go to repeat/validate the “successful” process… like any good QA analyst would.
13. The car then had the same symptoms I described earlier (see the paragraph that starts with “ok so here I go”}. It wouldn’t turn over. This is where I remembered Tom Hanks laughing in the “Money Pit” movie… when the bath tub fell broke through the floor.
I think, as I did at the onset of this horrid adventure, that the ignition switch is the problem. Do you all have any insight that I could use. I am looking for advice, wisdom and someone to start a “GoFundme” account. Thanks truly

[914-300Hemi]

It sounds like a ground issue. Check the ground cable under the trunk.

[Ross]

It sounds like a ground issue. Check the ground cable under the trunk.

Thanks Hemi, Which ground cable are you referring to? To my knowledge, the starter is grounded. Two wires to one port and the other is a plug in.

[lierofox]

When it's acting up, if you test the yellow wire at the starter while someone turns the key to the start position, is there voltage at the terminal where the yellow wire plugs into the starter? Alternatively, if you hook up a piece of wire directly to the battery positive terminal, and touch it to the yellow wire terminal on the starter, does the starter turn?

The starter wire, depending on the year, has multiple points of failure that should be checked before condemning the starter.

As you mentioned, the ignition switch may be bad. That's where the starter signal originates from, that's one spot to check.

(Only on models with the seatbelt interlock: Under the passenger seat there's a relay that goes bad and prevents the starter signal from passing through it, that needs to be bypassed, that's a spot to check.)

The signal then passes through the engine relay board, the signal goes in the 14 pin connector at the front of the board, and exits the 12 pin connector at the rear. Both connectors are possible spots for a bad connection.

Finally from there it goes through the engine tin and down to the starter.

All of those connections are potential intermittent connections that need to be checked, cleaned up, or otherwise addressed.

And as 914-300Hemi mentioned, check the transmission ground strap connection. If the ground strap isn't connected, or the connection is corroded, loose, etc. then you'll be plagued with starter (and many other) issues! The transmission ground strap is a flat, braided cable located at the top of the transmission tail housing, and connects between the transmission and a stud on the underside of the rear trunk floor.


Edit: Grabbed an image from this post http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry1306436

The strap you'll be looking for I've drawn a Red Square ™ around.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1585870115.1.png)

[Ross]

When it's acting up, if you test the yellow wire at the starter while someone turns the key to the start position, is there voltage at the terminal where the yellow wire plugs into the starter? Alternatively, if you hook up a piece of wire directly to the battery positive terminal, and touch it to the yellow wire terminal on the starter, does the starter turn?

The starter wire, depending on the year, has multiple points of failure that should be checked before condemning the starter.

As you mentioned, the ignition switch may be bad. That's where the starter signal originates from, that's one spot to check.

(Only on models with the seatbelt interlock: Under the passenger seat there's a relay that goes bad and prevents the starter signal from passing through it, that needs to be bypassed, that's a spot to check.)

The signal then passes through the engine relay board, the signal goes in the 14 pin connector at the front of the board, and exits the 12 pin connector at the rear. Both connectors are possible spots for a bad connection.

Finally from there it goes through the engine tin and down to the starter.

All of those connections are potential intermittent connections that need to be checked, cleaned up, or otherwise addressed.

And as 914-300Hemi mentioned, check the transmission ground strap connection. If the ground strap isn't connected, or the connection is corroded, loose, etc. then you'll be plagued with starter (and many other) issues! The transmission ground strap is a flat, braided cable located at the top of the transmission tail housing, and connects between the transmission and a stud on the underside of the rear trunk floor.


Edit: Grabbed an image from this post http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry1306436

The strap you'll be looking for I've drawn a Red Square ™ around.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1585870115.1.png)

Awesome information! I can't thank you guys enough. I have always been impressed by the awesome support on this website.

[Bmw635]

De-Oxit spray are really good at cleaning up corroded contacts. Cleaned my taillight socket the 928. Probably helped my 914 started after sitting 23 yrs. Spray it on all the connectors.

I see a power relay on the relay board, doesn't hurt to check that also.

[ctc911ctc]

Please read through this one - it covers many of the items you may be experiencing, his trouble turned out to be grounding.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=342736

Reader Beware – the following content may be not be suitable for all audiences

If you have the ware withal to make it through this painful post; I thank you very much. I am looking for any advice based on your knowledge and experiences.

Ok, so here I go – recently our 1972 914 1.7 didn’t’ start. When I turned the key, I heard the fuel pump engage, all interior lights worked, etc… but the starter didn’t turn over. Note - I had one of these 914s when I was a teenager and remembered when the ignition switch went bad and I felt like this was probably the problem again.
I took it to our local Porsche expert and told them what I felt the problem was. After they did their research, they called me and said that it wasn’t’ the ignition switch… it was the starter. Great news… probably less labor than installing an ignition switch, I felt. This is when “the fun” starts:

1. After they installed the new starter, I received a call that the new starter was in. That they had installed a brand new Bosche starter as this was better than all of the remanned starters that were out there. Cool I thought… a little more expensive, but they are going the extra mile. So, they installed it.
2. So, after installing they called and told me that the new starter was in, but upon engaging the starter that there is a terrible grinding noise.
3. When I went to pick the car up, it was further explained to me that the reason for the grinding noise was that the gearing in the new starter was no longer fitting into the old flywheel properly anymore. Made sense I thought. I was also told that it will probably quiet down as the gear and the flywheel began to “marry together”. But the best option would be to put a new flywheel in so that I was dealing with new-on-new. Made sense I thought.
4. I started the car at the repair shop to drive it home and it sounded terrible.. crazy grinding.
5. I got home and decided that the best bet was to have this repair shop replace the flywheel as well. I stated it once right after I parked the car and then I never/started drove the car after this.
6. I called my favorite 914 expert and explained the situation to him. He immediately asked what the part number of the new starter was that had been installed by the local repair shop….
7. I looked at the invoice and told him an SR15N… “a brand new Bosche”. He immediately explained only the SR17X was the right starter. And that the grinding/symptoms were typical of installing a SR15N starter.
8. I really respect this person/company and the advice given to me, so decided to purchase the SR17X starter.
9. Side note – I have also installed starters in the 914 when I was a teenager… and because of many reasons, I decided it was best that I would just install the new starter myself.
10. So I installed the SR17X starter with no issues… I was feeling good
11. I cranked the car, it started with no problems… beautiful… the terrible grinding? no mas. I’m feeling good… feeling competent. Das ist very gut
12. I shut the car off and go to repeat/validate the “successful” process… like any good QA analyst would.
13. The car then had the same symptoms I described earlier (see the paragraph that starts with “ok so here I go”}. It wouldn’t turn over. This is where I remembered Tom Hanks laughing in the “Money Pit” movie… when the bath tub fell broke through the floor.
I think, as I did at the onset of this horrid adventure, that the ignition switch is the problem. Do you all have any insight that I could use. I am looking for advice, wisdom and someone to start a “GoFundme” account. Thanks truly

[76-914]

Get your old starter back from the mechanic as that obviously wasn't the problem. I agree with what others have said. Possibilities: trans ground strap, interlock is still active, ignition switch is faulty, bad connections or loose spade on the yellow wire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ctc911ctc]

Get your old starter back from the mechanic as that obviously wasn't the problem. I agree with what others have said. Possibilities: trans ground strap, interlock is still active, ignition switch is faulty, bad connections or loose spade on the yellow wire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

ALWAYS collect your old parts! They are someone's (in the future) NEW parts!

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

if the car will not turn over at all, the transmission ground is not the problem, it is the power to the solenoid. may be the yellow wire fell off after you installed the new starter as it just clips on. Check it. THEN check to see if it lights a test light when engaging the ignition switch. If it does and the starter still is not turning, check the starter by shorting across the stud with the big wires to the male spade solenoid clip. If it starts, then you have a voltage drop on the yellow lead. If it still does not start, check the connections at the positive battery terminal and the starter solenoid