Newbie from Tulsa, First 914, need to do some brain picking Options

[mrdezyne]

Hey all!

I'm a very new owner of a 73' 1.7l, baby blue, all stock from what I can tell. Story is the motor lost oil back in 1990 and has been in my buddies mother-in-laws garage ever since. I couldn't pass it up so now I have a new project. After doing some searching I ran across this forum and it looked like a place I could call home. I'll tell you all up front that I plan on using you. Using your experience, knowledge, and tips to get this baby back into shape.

First couple of questions should be simple.

1. This thing has A/C but I plan on ripping it all out. Is it worth anything? Should I just hang onto it for resale later?

2. I have always wanted to do a slant nose on one of these. No, I am far from a purist and don't intend to keep this thing stock and by the numbers. Are slant nose conversion fenders still available? If so from where? And is there a market for my rust free front stock fenders. I have seen new replacements priced around $1100!

Any help is appreciated. This is only the begining of the multitude of stupid questions I'm going to ask but hey, I gotta start somewhere.....

[Mueller]

welcome.....


A/C = worth between $75 and $200.....most valuable part is the section under dash with the vents, without that in good condition, it's not worth much at all....


slantnose = no idea, I doubt you'll find them in steel, or at least brand new...maybe you should trade your car for an RX-7 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

just kidding (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

value of your fenders = depends on how well you take them off, they have to be cut off...removing all of those spot welds can be time consuming....as for the new replacements worth $1100!???? take those ads on eBay* and such with a grain of salt..yes, the "book" might have them priced as such, but in the real world, right now no one but a body shop is paying that much for them.....

*as an example AA has an ad for Fake Fuchs, $500 for all 4, they of course have to mention that a Brand new one lists for $650, what they don't tell you is you can buy real ones all day for $400 to $500 for all 4......it's all in advertising

[mrdezyne]

Thanks for the info! This is just what I was looking for.

The car has basically been in a time capsule. The interior is in very nice shape, I'll have to post pics later, but the lower vent section of the A/C is all there, no cracks or anything.

I knew the slant nose comment was not going to be received with open arms but it was worth a shot. Those goofy little signal lamps that stick up are starting to grow on me but it still looks out of place in my opinion.

Next question would be... Since this car seems to be in really great shape for a 32 yr old car, would it be worth more to restore it? I'm not a big fan of "stock"... this is my other car...... I get the same crap from BMW purists for modding this thing.....

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Aug 3 2005, 07:41 PM)

I knew the slant nose comment was not going to be received with open arms but it was worth a shot. Those goofy little signal lamps that stick up are starting to grow on me but it still looks out of place in my opinion.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

i know it's your car and all that, but please, if the car is as unmolested as you say, DONT cut the fenders off for some slant nose conversion!

clean her up and sell her just the way she is and buy a well done chalon car (which is the most popular of the slan-nose kits) ...
i'd hate to see another nice car cut up and hacked to pieces ...

but that's just my opinion and i for one never liked the slant-nose, not even on the 911.
it looks way to "gewollt und nicht gekonnt" ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) Andy

PS: oh, yeah, and welcome to the club! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Mueller]

nice Honda...hahaha....oh wait, it is a BMW (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)


I too cannot leave my car alone....my 914 has carbonfiber hoods (front and rear), 17" rims...etc...etc.....

the discussion of stock/modified came up a few days ago.....if the car is really, really cherry, and depending on what kind of mods you want to do, sometimes it's better to sell the cherry car for one that won't be "missed" as much if your mods are too personal.....my car has a salvage title, so I know it'll never be worth it to restore

for your front fenders, you might try and find a local bodyshop that is good with metal...might be easier

[VegasRacer]

(IMG:http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/welcome.gif)
Like Andy, I am not a fan of slant nose jobs on these cars, so don't expect me to encourage you in that direction. Don't get me wrong, like many others here, my car is far from stock. I can appreciate almost any mod, as long as it is well done.

First things first. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) How can we help you get that puppy up and running?
After that we will be happy to overload you with options on how to make it better.
We are really good at spending other peoples money. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[mrdezyne]

Thanks everyone, I can see the direction this thing is going to go. I'm so fresh to the 914 that I had no idea the fenders were spot welded on. That does make a major difference. I mean if I could unbolt them and bolt on some replacements that would be one thing, but this conversion would be a permenant kind of thing, it would never really be "stock" if I kept the original fenders and wanted to put them back on later.... All good info for a newbie... Thanks a ton......

So far I have just been cleaning it up to see what is good and what needs to be replaced/fixed. After talking with the local 914 guru about the oil loss in the engine, he mentioned that if it was cold and the oil was still thick, it might have blown an aluminum freeze plug. Until I drop the engine and look it over I won't be sure what I'm in for.... I'll keep you posted as to what I find....

So far the only rust is the drivers side door sill and jack plate, and the battery tray. I have looked all under the battery tray and the suspension pivot point and it all still looks good. One good thing about all the oil blowing out before it was put up, everything is covered and rust protected!

Another question then....

1. Is it worth doing a 2.0 swap? I auto-x my BMW now but was hoping to start doing PCA events with this 914 along with local SCCA events. Will the 2.0 give me that much more to play with?

2. Would wide fenders be as much of a debauchery as the slant nose? I would obviously go with fiberglass instead of metal for weight savings. I know thats probably tabu but I'm just asking the questions.....

Thanks again! I can tell this is going to be a fun project. I've done a lot of cleaning since this pic but it gives you an idea of the shape of the interior....

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Aug 4 2005, 12:26 AM)

Another question then.... 1. Is it worth doing a 2.0 swap? I auto-x my BMW now but was hoping to start doing PCA events with this 914 along with local SCCA events. Will the 2.0 give me that much more to play with? 2. Would wide fenders be as much of a debauchery as the slant nose? I would obviously go with fiberglass instead of metal for weight savings. I know thats probably tabu but I'm just asking the questions..... Thanks again! I can tell this is going to be a fun project. I've done a lot of cleaning since this pic but it gives you an idea of the shape of the interior....

first WELCOME!!

1) it's your car, if you want it pink and purple with green polka dots, go fo it... there are worse things than slant nose... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

2) fenders can be done a few different ways.. fiber is ok, but have a pro in stall them so they bond correctly, otherwise, you get cracks and generally a craptacular look. if you really want a nice look... roll your STOCK fenders... there's a how-to around here somewhere by John Kelly.. without a DOUBT the best looking wide-fenders on a 914!

3) 2.0 for stock is the way to go... but smarter money is a 2056(96mm pistons, 2.0 crank, heads, rods, etc) but I dunno how the rules in A-X will change your decisions... you CAN still use the 1.7 FI on a 2.0 or 2056, with larger(2.0) injectors, and maybe a 2.0 brain.

bottom line: have fun!!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)


if you want to see a bunch of teeners to get your wheels turning... come to MUSR in Granbury, TX Sept. 1-4!!

[ClayPerrine]

Welcome!!!

That is a nice car!! It's in great shape for it's age.

Personally, I would put a nice 2.0 in there and drive it for a while before you start changing things. If it's really unmolested, the 2.0 would make it eligible to run in the stock class in SCCA and PCA autocross. If you go chopping fenders off it starts making you progress classes, and to be competitive in those classes (especially in SCCA) requires major cubic dollars.

Wayne is right. Come to Granbury, Texas labor day weekend. It's not that far south of Tulsa, and you would get to meet up with a bunch of 914 fanatics, myself included. We can show you all the good and bad points of a 914, and have some fun doing it!!



Also, there are lots of Tulsa locals that you can hook up with.

[Allan]

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Aug 3 2005, 10:26 PM)

After talking with the local 914 guru about the oil loss might have blown an aluminum freeze plug.

Actually, freeze plugs are for water cooled engines. He was probably thinking galley plugs, and that is a real possibility.

Nice looking car by the way.

I like them as stock looking as possible but I have seen some flared cars that look really nice.

Welcome to the zoo...

[nebreitling]

looks good, welcome aboard. be sure to get it running first, then worry about body work/conversion stuff. finding a cheap used engine (1.7 or 1.8) might be a good option for getting it going, then you can build up your spare to 2.0 or more. even a stock 2.0 you'll find low on power, but these cars are a blast to drive regardless. nice find (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[wilchek]

I would get it running first. I have a feeling you are going to find the car drives slower than your grandmoter compared to your daily driver. Handles like nothing else, but it is not like a modern car. You will find that the BMW may give you more kicks. One thing u will find is that 914 owners are cheap. No matter what u do to these car they never seem to increase too much. That being said, I have owned and driven BMW (newM3), Mercedes, and other sports tuned cars and I like the 914 for the raw driver interaction. Oh ya they are chaep also and I can change the engine quicker than I can change brakes on most cars. my 2 cents Roll the fender, add some wheels and suspension, a center consloe with gages, build up the engine(one of the easiest engines to work on), and drive the tires off of it. If you haven't notice 914 owners are drivers and mechanics. We don't care as much about the looks as other car groups.

Oh ya I am surprised no one told u to do this, but you should pull the rocker covers and check the longs under the covers for rust. (you have to drill our the rivets on the door sill and take out the bolts on the bottom of the covers.)

Welcome aboard, get ready too spend way too much time here.

[Dave_Darling]

There are at least a handful of 914 folk around the Tulsa area. There have been several at each of the Mid-US Ramble (MUSR) events that I have attended. Head on out to Grandbury and meet up with them, as well as a few other folks from this board. (Like Clay. Nice guy--but tell him to stand up! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) )

It may be a bit tough to get a hotel room, especially if you wait. See the thread "stuck" to the top of the thread listings for more details.

--DD

[spare time toys]

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Aug 4 2005, 11:53 AM)

Wayne is right. Come to Granbury, Texas labor day weekend. It's not that far south of Tulsa, and you would get to meet up with a bunch of 914 fanatics, myself included. We can show you all the good and bad points of a 914, and have some fun doing it!!

Come on down it will be a good chance to get to know a bunch of nice folks.

[ClayPerrine]

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Aug 4 2005, 01:26 PM)

There are at least a handful of 914 folk around the Tulsa area. There have been several at each of the Mid-US Ramble (MUSR) events that I have attended. Head on out to Grandbury and meet up with them, as well as a few other folks from this board. (Like Clay. Nice guy--but tell him to stand up! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) ) It may be a bit tough to get a hotel room, especially if you wait. See the thread "stuck" to the top of the thread listings for more details. --DD

Hey!! I am tall enough that my feet reach the ground!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

Oh and Dave, It's Granbury... No "D" in it.


And the official MUSR joke this year is gonna be "Dave's not here, Man."

[jr91472]

hey welcome (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)

Tulsa is my favorite okey town. I am only about 45min south of the Red River.

You really should come to MUSR 7. Several from your parts will be making the drive, so follow along with your BMW.

Just my .02, but I would spend all my money on getting her running as is before attempting and conversions, etc. Trust me, you will find alot of things to spend money on before you have a chance to cut fenders. Plus, it will give time to learn 914s and honestly what you want to do with the car.

COME TO MUSR 7....COME TO MUSR 7..... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Aug 4 2005, 04:00 PM)

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Aug 4 2005, 01:26 PM) There are at least a handful of 914 folk around the Tulsa area.  There have been several at each of the Mid-US Ramble (MUSR) events that I have attended.  Head on out to Grandbury and meet up with them, as well as a few other folks from this board.  (Like Clay.  Nice guy--but tell him to stand up!  ;)  ) It may be a bit tough to get a hotel room, especially if you wait.  See the thread "stuck" to the top of the thread listings for more details. --DD Hey!! I am tall enough that my feet reach the ground!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) Oh and Dave, It's Granbury... No "D" in it. And the official MUSR joke this year is gonna be "Dave's not here, Man."

I think the "hard-luck award should be dubbed the "Dave Darling overspun award" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Joseph Mills]

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Aug 3 2005, 08:41 PM)

... this is my other car......  I get the same crap from BMW purists for modding this thing..... ..

Was that pic of your BMW taken at Lake Hefner in OKC? Looks like it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

You will definitely want to come to MUSR7 on labor day weekend. Don't worry if you can't get a room at the official spot. I and some others from Tulsa are staying at motel 6.

There are several of us here in OKC & Tulsa that do all our own work on our teeners. In OKC we're very active in AX. If you'd like some contact info, send me a PM.

You have definitely come to the right place for 914s.

That car looks pretty original and unmolested... examples like yours are getting harder and harder to find. I'd simply get it back on the road first and decide later what direction you want to go in.

Welcome to the club. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[flesburg]

Medezyne from Tulsa,

Hello and welcome to the world of 914 nuts. There are quite a few of us, and we all have our opinions, and most of us can’t agree on much, so consensus in our group is hard to arrive at, except our love of the little 914.

Most of us have come to certain conclusions however about our little cars. As background I bought mine new in early 1974. It started life as a 74 2.0 4cyl. The sticker price on it was about $6400, and that did not include cast wheels, or a radio. By comparison a base 1974 911 was over $11,000. An S or Carrera was closer to $13,000.

1. A 1.7 L 914 is never going to be a collector car.

2. A fully restored almost concours condition 1.7 L 914 will not ever be worth the money it will take to bring your car up to that level.

3. Even if you do all of the work yourself, the cost of the parts will exceed the value of the car.

4. In 1984 and 1985 I rebuild my 914. I spent, between parts and body shop work, and not counting my labor as worth one dime, when I was done I had spent $17,000 and that does not include the purchase price of the car in 1974. It did include steel flairs, a complete repaint, 8x16 wheels, a complete rebuild on the 2.0L 4 cyl engine, and a lot of silliness on new parts that I may have not needed, euro lights, rear reflector all new bearings bushings etc etc…..

5. IF you are interested in resale value, SELL THE CAR NOW before you spend a dime, because broken engine and all, from here on out you will be putting money into a toy that will be more fun than you can imagine, but you will NEVER get your money back. SO, if you are thinking you can ever get you money out of it SELL it now.

6. Or part it out. Your wheels were made in the early 70s by (I think American Eagle) and I always thought they were the best looking wheels made for the 4 cyl, but by 74 they were out of production, and I settled for some wheels by ATS.

7. Once you are okay with this, proceed.

8. Long term you need to be more concerned with rust than anything, including your broken engine. Rust and 914s are like ham and eggs. It can get inside the longitudinals and eat the car from the inside out. I have seen them so bad that you could not jack them up. Had a tub like that one time. You need to get some help from somebody who will show you what to look for. I met a 25 year old young lady 15 years ago and she had bought this 914 and it was beautiful. Until you lifted the rear trunk carpet and pad, and then I hate to tell you what I found under the passenger seat. It was so bad and she was so proud, and she was so cute, that I could not tell her the truth. Her dad was there, and he knew, but he could not tell her either. Get several friends together, take off the top, have them all stand inside the car and jump up and down. While they are in the car, see if you can open and close the doors.

9. Once you know what you are faced with, then I think the first priority is to get the rust damage fixed and probably repaint the car. Do not take shortcuts. Rust needs to be cut our and new steel welded it. At anytime, if you find it is too expensive to go on, then STOP, because it is just going to get worse.

10. Do not spend a lot of money on an engine etc and get it on the street only to find out that you need to spend $5 or $6,000 on body work that you cannot do.

11. Figure on buying: An air compressor, a plazma cutter, a mig welder, a big box of air tools, and painting equipment and LEARNING how to do much of the body work yourself. Then we can start on mechanics tools and learning how to do those things too.

If I have not turned you off by now, WELCOME to the world of 914s, and make it into what you want, not what any of us tell you. If you like slope noses, go for it. Learn some about metal working and get someone to help you get started, and reshape the front fenders into steel slope noses. (I like the little bumps sticking up in the air, think they are cute, and VERY distinct, and that the slope nose 914s look too much like RX7s, which I love to hate….)

Good luck and happy years ahead of you with your 914.

[pete-stevers]

welcome aboard! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)
what ever you do with your car is great as long as it is done to your standards.... the guys here are a fantastic group of guys with all sorts of different opinons on how to "do" your car.....
It is my opinion....that you keep your car off jackstands if at all possible and get it up and running and drive the damn thing...... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
Steve Peters