2.0 build to 2056 or 2270?, Which cam would be best ?? Going carburetorated, with 96mm pistons Options

[zman914]

Looking to do a 2056 or 2270 build from a stock 2.0. Changing over to carburetorated, with 96mm pistons.. Looking for good cam advise. I'm looking for more hp, but very reliable.

[iankarr]

Welcome, Zman!

Going to carbs opens up a ton of options for you. It really comes down to cost and skill. If you will be rebuilding the engine yourself and you haven't done it before, I'd probably go with a proven 2056 combination. Lots of those engines on the road with good reliability. Others can chime in with specifics. If you go up to 2270, the precision needs to be higher, so it's not something I'd attempt for my first build. You'll also need to think about supplemental oil cooling.

Either way, you'll want to make sure the case checks out as a buildable core, with registers that are dead flat and parallel to the heads. I'd also swap the galley plugs for threaded ones. Good luck!

[r_towle]

Elgin camshafts

[cgnj]

I think you need to decide displacement before you start talking about cams. Building a big displacement type 4 today, i would run FI. That's my winter project for my 2270 motor.

[Jack Standz]

Looking to do a 2056 or 2270 build from a stock 2.0. Changing over to carburetorated, with 96mm pistons.. Looking for good cam advise. I'm looking for more hp, but very reliable.

The biggest difficulty for building a 2270 for a while was finding a 78.4/78mm type iv stroker crankshaft. But, currently it looks like they're available again. With aftermarket rods, you should have very little if any clearance problems with the 2270. So, the main difference between building the 2056 versus the 2270 is the size of the spacers between the case and the cylinders (and the crankshaft stroke of 71 or 78).

Pick a Webcam (with matched lifters) appropriate for the application you will be putting the motor. Or we like tool steel lifters and crower springs. With the right cam choice it'll run just fine on carbs.

[technicalninja]

I think you need to decide displacement before you start talking about cams. Building a big displacement type 4 today, i would run FI. That's my winter project for my 2270 motor.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Modern FI is "The Way" in my book too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You've got a whole bunch of decisions to make before you start choosing cams.

Tell us about your car and your abilities.

Describe past projects, what you are comfortable doing.

Tell us what you expect the budget to be like.

And, most of all, your goals for the car.

A nice street cruiser VS a solo car VS a dedicated track monster all require different strategies...

[mepstein]

We have our cam supplier (mostly Daugherty racing cams) help us with cam selection. John generally has a much better overview of the cam selection than the average builder or the home gamer.

[zman914]

Thanks for all the replies!! I'm thinking I will keep my first porsche engine rebuild simple and go with a 2056.. So best cam options!! Still would like to get the most reliable hp out of the motor.

[zman914]

Hows the web cam #86? Anyone running that cam?

[cgnj]

@zman914 Do you have the carb setup in hand? If not, then read this article by @GregAmy . He should put it behind a paywall.
https://tgadrivel.blogspot.com/2020/03/on-m...914-part-1.html

[930cabman]

Elgin camshafts

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Give Dema a call, he will get you fixed up

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[technicalninja]

@zman914 Do you have the carb setup in hand? If not, then read this article by @GregAmy . He should put it behind a paywall.
https://tgadrivel.blogspot.com/2020/03/on-m...914-part-1.html

I just looked at "Greg's horrible waste of internet bandwidth".

I agree! That should be REQUIRED reading for anyone thinking about what options are available.

@GregAmy That might be the best guide for microsquirt I've seen!

Extremely well done AND he makes notations when time and experience has altered his original thoughts.

He built MODERN that doesn't look that way at all!

A very good system that was no more expensive than rebuilding an original D-jet.

OP, if you don't look through the link you're missing out!

And what is MOST impressive regarding the microsquirt conversion Greg walks you through is the fact that it can support ANY engine.

Stock will run better with it and WILD high compression/monster cam/stroker is only keystrokes different. At some point the intake manifold will be restrictive but the MS supports ITBs just fine.

At the point you have his "system" any engine combination will work...

[JamesM]

Looking to do a 2056 or 2270 build from a stock 2.0. Changing over to carburetorated, with 96mm pistons.. Looking for good cam advise. I'm looking for more hp, but very reliable.

All cams except for stock are good, but which one you want depends on your goals and the specifics of your setup.

Are you looking for bottom or top end? How high are you looking to rev it? Do you want something tame or more exciting? What sort of heads/porting/valve sizes are you using? What does your exhaust setup look like? What carbs are you running?

[VaccaRabite]

I'm a big fan of the Web494 cam. Good torque, requires HD springs, isn't a total dog off the line. Lets you have a lot of fun with a stock redline, and you don't have to be in a super narrow powerband at the top of the rev range for it to make power. I ran one with carbs, and I ran one with modern fuel injection on a 2056 for about a decade.

Whatever you do, don't got with a cam advertised as a race cam. May make more peak power, but you will have nothing until 4000 rpm and it will be a total dog around town.

Zach

[barefoot]

I'm a big fan of the Web494 cam. Good torque, requires HD springs, isn't a total dog off the line. Lets you have a lot of fun with a stock redline, and you don't have to be in a super narrow powerband at the top of the rev range for it to make power. I ran one with carbs, and I ran one with modern fuel injection on a 2056 for about a decade.

Whatever you do, don't got with a cam advertised as a race cam. May make more peak power, but you will have nothing until 4000 rpm and it will be a total dog around town.

Zach

I'm using the 494 in a 2056 with Dell 40's I just kept the stock springs as I will not be revving past 5500 which the cam is rated for for max power. Good low end torque as I typically don't bother with 1st gear and pulls nicely from my 1000 idle rpm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Barefoot

[VaccaRabite]

I'm using the 494 in a 2056 with Dell 40's I just kept the stock springs as I will not be revving past 5500 which the cam is rated for for max power. Good low end torque as I typically don't bother with 1st gear and pulls nicely from my 1000 idle rpm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Barefoot

That is the one downside of the 494. You are not going to have a 700 rpm idle. It wants to idle around 900-1000 rpm. I've had 2 versions of this camshaft (the Web494, and the Raby shaft that added a touch of exhaust duration to the 494 profile - but I can't recall the part number now). Both of them wanted to idle around 1000 rpm.

Zach

[Dave_Darling]

With aftermarket rods, you should have very little if any clearance problems with the 2270.

Is that true now? I know that in the past, people had to run reduced base circle cams to keep one of the rods from colliding with one of the cam lobes... Even with aftermarket rods!

--DD

[Jack Standz]

With aftermarket rods, you should have very little if any clearance problems with the 2270.

Is that true now? I know that in the past, people had to run reduced base circle cams to keep one of the rods from colliding with one of the cam lobes... Even with aftermarket rods!

--DD

Yes. But, your point is well taken. Run the 1" base circle in stroker motors for clearance, Clarence.

Here's what European Motor Works says:

Note: Most camshafts can be ground on a 1" base circle for clearence on a large stroker application.

https://www.europeanmotorworks.com/type-4/c...ifications.html

Webcam also sells the reduced base circle cams, which are the cams we use in our builds.


Also (a 2270 has a 78.4/78mm stroke):

https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=...5e&start=15

by Type 4 Unleashed » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:03 pm

And one other issue: And this is for anyone who thinks they need a Reduced Base Circle Cam. I've found RBC Cams are needed for 82mm strokes and larger. With the right rod up to 80mm there's enough clearance if the rods are aftermarket with 5/16" bolts but should be checked to be sure, 80mm strokes also have to be checked for clearance if the bolts are 3/8". RBC Cams tend to wear faster than standard base circle cams, so I try to stay away from them as much as possible. Brook I don't know what rods you used, you didn't post that info.
Richard

[colingreene]

I built myself a 2258 on my first engine build for a 914.
thats a 96x78 not 78.4.

I did get the crank from Fat but I did not have a good experience with them.
But I picked the 78 stroke as I was told that it would clear the cam with stock rods.
Turned out it still needed a reduced base circle cam regardless. I also had to clearance the case a small bit with the stock rods. however I do think the rods are a good investment. With doing the rods I did Keith black pistons with the wrist pin height changed to accommodate the stroke without having to shim the motor or compromise the rod ratio too bad.

I am running the Web 86a cam. With the displacement and the compression i chose.
About 9:1 or just over, it idles around 800-900 but smooth and has torque everywhere. I seldom find myself reving it past 5500. But I don't see that as a real drawback.
Additionally I found that at that size external oil cooking was in my opinion needed.