Too much front Camber ? Options

[Olympic 914]

This winter I installed Koni Adj strut inserts in the front, and just left the alignment settings where they were at.

I borrowed a buddy's Camber/Caster gauge and decided to fine tune things today.

Started out putting 185lbs in the drivers seat. (my weight) and then set the ride height all around. putting the front A-arms at level.

Then went about checking the Camber. on the front they were only slightly different, So I set them both at -3 deg camber. Caster seemed OK at 6 deg. so I left it there.

Rear camber is -2.5 deg (2. 30min?) on the right and -2.62 (2.37min) left. I really don't want to mess with this.

It seems to handle pretty good. Is that too much front camber for a street car? I'm not really too worried about tire wear.

[fiacra]

I don't know if this is of any help to you, but here are the numbers for my most recent alignment on my 1975 1.8, done after replacing the trailing arm bushings. These are the settings they told me were the best for street driving. This is a shop that is experienced in aligning 914s. I questioned this as to me the rear wheels look like they have too much negative camber and they certainly aren't the numbers you'll find in the shop manual, but I confirmed that is what they wanted and I had another shop check it out and confirm they felt it was correct. It drives fine and I'm also not worried about tire wear as they will age out before I get even close to wearing them out. You're going to get lots of different opinions on this, as I found out...

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

3 degrees neg in the front is outrageous, besides hard steering slow cumbersome turn in, like you said the tires will wear out., There is NO benefit what so ever setting the camber that neg. zero is standard, 1/2 a degree if racing

This winter I installed Koni Adj strut inserts in the front, and just left the alignment settings where they were at.

I borrowed a buddy's Camber/Caster gauge and decided to fine tune things today.

Started out putting 185lbs in the drivers seat. (my weight) and then set the ride height all around. putting the front A-arms at level.

Then went about checking the Camber. on the front they were only slightly different, So I set them both at -3 deg camber. Caster seemed OK at 6 deg. so I left it there.

Rear camber is -2.5 deg (2. 30min?) on the right and -2.62 (2.37min) left. I really don't want to mess with this.

It seems to handle pretty good. Is that too much front camber for a street car? I'm not really too worried about tire wear.

[Dave_Darling]

For spirited street driving, I prefer about 0.5 degrees negative camber (both sides!) in the front, and about 1.0 degrees (negative) in the rear. This gives you a bit more grip in the corners and doesn't put a ton of extra wear on the tires or give up that much traction for braking or acceleration.

-3 up front is a lot. Like, an awful lot. Having more negative up front than the rear is also the opposite of the usual trend.

It is possible for those kinds of numbers to be "correct" in some instances, but usually those are for people with modified-enough cars and enough high performance/track driving experience that they are not likely to be asking this kind of question...

--DD

[Geezer914]

I am running negative 1.4 camber in front with 6° castor , 1/16 toe in. The rear is negative 1.5° camber and 0° toe.

[brant]

My street car around negative 1.5 in front

I’ve aged out about three sets of tires but never worn out a set

Race car with modern race tires need a lot more camber than the doctor recommends

I run around. Negative 3 front.

The corners would like an even higher numbers. However data traces show I’m loosing braking threshold around that point. I’ve tested with more

[Olympic 914]

3 degrees neg in the front is outrageous, besides hard steering slow cumbersome turn in, like you said the tires will wear out., There is NO benefit what so ever setting the camber that neg. zero is standard, 1/2 a degree if racing

Outrageous... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Ok I was expecting a couple dissenting opinions.

I have driven the car this way for a bunch of years, Many times on the Dragon and on the winding roads in SW Pennsylvania. I always thought it handled just fine. Driving friends 914s with skinnier tires. I felt they handled a bit lighter, maybe more nimble.

I simply attributed it to the difference in tire sizes. I am running 205-50/ 16 fronts and 225-50.16 rear. on 7+8" wheels.

Since I still have the tool, I think I will knock back the camber a bit, and see how it does.

[BillJ]

I have the same widths and don’t run that much camber on the race car. It is indeed a lot. I bet you will find turn in quicker and responsiveness better and you willhave a larger tire contact patch. With that much camber you are reducing how much of the tire you are using. You may have to get used to it as it may feel a little more darty but trust me that you should really max out at about 2 for street driving and even that is aggressive.

[jd74914]

Outrageous... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

-3 is quite a bit for DOT tires...but...the good Dr. is out of touch on modern tires. I've always run around Brant's -1.5 with sticky streets with good grip and no excessive wear issues. The camber curve is relatively bad on these front suspensions so a bit more camber won't hurt if you're driving a lot of twisties.

[stownsen914]

-3 is a lot on a primarily street driven car. I don't even run that much on the race car with radial slicks. I like brant's suggestion for spirited street driving.

[Olympic 914]

Full disclosure...

Its not at -3deg. Whenever I would make adjustments the Zero would change. Just tapping on the strut would do it.

The gauge has a factory set "0" but can be adjusted for a not level surface. Since I did it in my garage. There is a slight slope towards the center drain.
It seems that the tires flexibility would compensate for a little bit off.

After another round of measurements, it turns out that I can't get more than -1deg on the right but have more adjustment on the left.

The car has been in a couple accidents, nothing serious but maybe enough to affect the adjustment.

The guy I borrowed the gauge from had similar issues and stated he just got it close enough to drive it around until he got it professional aligned.

I got it as close to equal on both sides as I could. It's more like -.75 now.

[Dave_Darling]

If you set up a vertical line, you can measure from that line to the top of the wheel and the bottom of the wheel. The trig to find the angle at that point is easy if you have a calculator (or calculator app on your phone or if you can Google).

Vertical lines are just a string and a plumb-bob away.

--DD