Spaced Out, What would you do? Options

[Shivers]

Hi guys: I'm working on my trailing arms. Won't be long till it is time to reassemble. I tried the search, gave up and decided to ask directly. I have new hubs, 5x130. My rear flares are GT flares that I am adding 2" in width to each one in the rear. I would really appreciate your opinions on spacers. I need to get lugs on these hubs before I install them. Which spacer in your experience is safer. Long lugs or short lugs bolted to the spacer.
Gentleman, what say you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I borrowed the base picture then added my junk to it. Carving, some autocross and I hope a track day now and then. Thanks

[brant]

Bolted together spacers used to be taboo for racing

I would buy TUV approved spacers

In fact run one inch German spacers on my racecar

Then buy the correct length of studs

[flxzcat]

The one thing that has really bugged me is that 914's do not have concentric wheel locators. I've worked on many old Italian and German sports/race cars, and they all had wheel locators, and if you also purchased proper spacers from the better vendors, these too had the locators.

So, I hope your rear hubs have them and, in that case, I wouldn't worry about which method you use to bolt the wheels on. If your hubs do not have the locators, I would choose the double short bolt or stud method. The spacers will be CNC'd so they will be spot on. It's the long stud alignment that I would be concerned with.

[brant]

Late cars are hub centric

[Shivers]

The one thing that has really bugged me is that 914's do not have concentric wheel locators. I've worked on many old Italian and German sports/race cars, and they all had wheel locators, and if you also purchased proper spacers from the better vendors, these too had the locators.

So, I hope your rear hubs have them and, in that case, I wouldn't worry about which method you use to bolt the wheels on. If your hubs do not have the locators, I would choose the double short bolt or stud method. The spacers will be CNC'd so they will be spot on. It's the long stud alignment that I would be concerned with.

This is a 1971, but front hubs I have are hub centric. But the rears are URO and are not.
You make a good point. And I did find them TUV approved. Okay, thank you very much.

[GregAmy]

The one thing that has really bugged me is that 914's do not have concentric wheel locators.

Email Chris, see if he has these in stock. I use them on both the street and race car:

https://tangerineracing.com/shop/ols/produc...centering-rings

[Charles Freeborn]

Def long lugs and spacers. I use H&R. You can also check with Eric at PMB. He's got lugs, etc. BTW, you can change studs with the hubs on the car (at least on mi car) . Have to pull calipers (anyway), any backing plates, etc.

[Shivers]

Def long lugs and spacers. I use H&R. You can also check with Eric at PMB. He's got lugs, etc. BTW, you can change studs with the hubs on the car (at least on mi car) . Have to pull calipers (anyway), any backing plates, etc.

You must have some kind of really cool tool. All I have is a press. And an e brake plate, and that can not be removed with out pulling the hubs. I still have an engine to rebuild or reseal, had it parked for a while, so slow and steady is my plan. Thanks

[Charles Freeborn]

Def long lugs and spacers. I use H&R. You can also check with Eric at PMB. He's got lugs, etc. BTW, you can change studs with the hubs on the car (at least on mi car) . Have to pull calipers (anyway), any backing plates, etc.

You must have some kind of really cool tool. All I have is a press. And an e brake plate, and that can not be removed with out pulling the hubs. I still have an engine to rebuild or reseal, had it parked for a while, so slow and steady is my plan. Thanks

Aaah yes, e-brake... don't have those...

[Ninja]

Bolted together spacers used to be taboo for racing

I would buy TUV approved spacers

In fact run one inch German spacers on my racecar

Then buy the correct length of studs

Late cars are hub centric

Later front hubs are concentric; the rears never were (stock 4 or 6 cylinder).

I'm with Brant. I've always loathed "adaptors" with a second set of studs mounted in the adaptor.

Maybe the newer stuff is better...
TUV rated stuff is probably pretty good, those Europeans are a picky bunch!

Now, if you made it out of titanium, I wouldn't have any qualms on using it. Just $$$

One thing that is often overlooked is where the wheel bearing sits in regards to the rubber footprint on the ground.
Most of the time the bearing needs to be "centered" in the tire footprint. Get this offset wrong and all sorts of strange issues can crop up.
I'm not sure if the 914 stock bearing is actually centered. I'd try to "mimic" the stock position in my wider footprint.

Front issues, bearing strength/life (minor) and steering effort can be a problem as you can change your scrub radius.

Rear is a BIG hit on bearing strength/life and it will make alignments far more critical.

Both front and rear will usually make bump steer issues worse.

Big time "track width" changes need proper engineering.

Most factory warranties for new stuff get voided over wheel offset changes. They won't pay for anything suspension or wheel bearing related if you change stuff up.

Be very careful when making these changes.

One again, @ChrisFoley is who I'd want to run any track changes by before I actually did them.


I LOVE the look of that white car, just BADASSED!
Ninja approved! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)
I just wouldn't want a rear wheel bearing to fail at triple digit speeds...

[stownsen914]

I've also not been a fan of the adapter style spacers that have a second set of studs. With those, you're basically depending on an aluminum, second hub to carrying all the forces from the drivetrain and the road. Porsche never put aluminum hubs on a rear of 914 or 911 to my knowledge - so I'm not sure how it's a good idea to have adapter/spacers made of aluminum. Perhaps for street use they'd be acceptable. No way I'd put them on anything that hits the track.

[mlindner]

Yes Porsche did. This is my 1998 Carrera S, wide body with Spacer and lugs. Not a problem in 18 years of hard driving...Many DE Road America and Sebring. Best, Mark

[mlindner]

Just FYI, also have them on my 914-6 GT Tribute fronts for the last 5 years. A few auto-x, hill climbs and lot of high speed runs. Not an issue.

[GregAmy]

Spacers, regardless of material, are not in and of themselves a problem. As long as all spacers have hubcentrics to keep them from shifting/fretting, then all of the wheel tension loads are carried through the wheel studs/bolts themselves and the spacers only have to manage the compressive/clamping loads.

Done properly, the use of spacers is no different than using wheels with a much larger offset.

The real issue with spacers/larger offset is that it's placing bending loads on suspension/bearing components that were not originally designed to handle it. I'm presuming that Porsche's 911 suspension bits were better designed to handle these larger offset wheels in the over-fender cars?

[slivel]

Front and rear on my car. No issues with wheel bearings or ball joints during 23 years of club racing. Much change on the scrub radius though.

[campbellcj]

Same on my car; spacers F&R for >15 yrs and never any issues that I've noticed.

[stownsen914]

Interesting, sounds like folks have had good experiences with the adapter style spacer. I stand corrected.

[flxzcat]

[/quote] Email Chris, see if he has these in stock. I use them on both the street and race car:

https://tangerineracing.com/shop/ols/produc...centering-rings
[/quote]


4 bolt version only from Chris. 914 and 911 hub locators are different size. 914-4's are not hub centric on rear. This is an annoying aspect of the converted 4 bolt to 5 bolt hubs front and rear offered by popular vendors!